Newbie needs Help

The technical section

Moderator: Global Moderators

Post Reply
kooltech
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:33 pm

Newbie needs Help

Post by kooltech » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:26 pm

hi

I'm new to all this - but have become totally addicted resulting in lots of 2am bedtimes lots of expense and probably an impending divorce!

I have traced my GGGG grandfather back to 1808 through his marriage certificate. But I'm at a loss how to proceed from her to get further back.

Any tips or help much appreciated.

Bill

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by LesleyB » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:49 pm

Hi Bill
And welcome to Talking Scot :D
I'm new to all this - but have become totally addicted resulting in lots of 2am bedtimes lots of expense and probably an impending divorce!
Sorry, had to laugh at this one...I'm sure many of us here on TS will recognise these symptoms! :roll: :lol:
I have traced my GGGG grandfather back to 1808 through his marriage certificate. But I'm at a loss how to proceed from her to get further back.
When and where (and who!) did your GGGG grandfather marry? When and where did he die? (Kinda hoping you are going to give a date after 1855 here...) What children did the couple have, and in what order? (the naming pattern of the children often give clues to their grandparents names). Have you followed your man through the census years (if he is still around in 1841, 1851 etc)? If so, does he state where he was born (1851 onwards only, the 1841 is not much help here)

Best wishes
Lesley

kooltech
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:33 pm

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by kooltech » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:08 am

Hi Lesley

Thanks for your reply, glad to know others share my addiction LOL.

My GGGG john Robertson born 1808/9 married Isabella Fraser in inverness on 11/7/1830 I don't have a date of death for either.I think that they moved to Gloucester and may have died there. I haven't found how to search the English records online? Any idea?


they had ANDREW (1835) WILLIAM, AITKEN, JAMES, MAY, JOHN, ALEXANDER(1844 GGG granddad)

I think I will try to get a day in Register House, as searching online on Scotland's People is proving a bit expensive. My main problem is that I get easily side tracked and often start looking for somewhat irelevent. relatives and have lost count of wrong information that has cost me 5 credits :(


Regards

Bill

Russell
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire
Contact:

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by Russell » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:40 am

Hi Bill
Lesley's comments were so apt. Genealogy is certainly addictive but fortunately isn't contagious.
I think you will find that Scotlandspeople is perhaps less expensive than other sources. It takes time to develop the search skills to cut out the the expensive side trips we all have made. Don't discard the info gained from some of the side branches you have pursued. It will probably come in very useful later when you try to unravel some of the interlinked family names. A useful - and free ! - source of information covering the time scale you are looking at just now is the LDS site. Some of their record transcriptions are directly from the old church records in Scotland and are fairly accurate; others are submitted dates and data which can be frankly wrong so they have to be treated with care.
There are many hints, tips and suggestions which can be gleaned from the many topics explored on TalkingScot so I might suggest that you explore some previous topics to see how others have approached their voyage of discovery. Use our search facility and key in place names or family names to see whether any related facts have already been discovered.
When you get stuck we have some incredibly proficient searchers who can winkle out the most obscure bits of information to carry a search forward. You have joined a happy band of self confessed addicts who have found that helping others can be as much fun as exploring your own tree.

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

paddyscar
Site Admin
Posts: 2418
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by paddyscar » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:15 pm

My GGGG john Robertson born 1808/9 married Isabella Fraser in inverness on 11/7/1830 I don't have a date of death for either.I think that they moved to Gloucester and may have died there. I haven't found how to search the English records online? Any idea?

they had ANDREW (1835) WILLIAM, AITKEN, JAMES, MAY, JOHN, ALEXANDER(1844 GGG granddad)

Regards

Bill
Hi Bill:

With the additional names, I have located some of them on Family Search also referred to as the IGI https://familysearch.org/search It can be helpful in searching, but also can help pinpoint more precisely, what searches would be most productive before going to ScotlandsPeople. It is a limited database from Ancestry, but worth a look.

Be aware that there are two methods by which the information in this and other Ancestry databases are compiled. What is the difference between the two?

Method 1 - Personal family information submitted to the LDS Church and members of Ancestry. These may contain records that might not have been confirmed against the original documents or copies of them. Also some family connections may not be as presented.

Method 2 Community Indexed IGI - Vital and church records from the early 1500s to 1885. These records are transcribed from the original church records, most likely by Church members/missionaries throughout the world. That is a difficult thing to do with total accuracy as writing styles vary from country to country; scripts and spellings change as time passes. Then there is the difference in what was said to the recorder of the information and what was heard - confusion often a result of different accents and languages. Illiteracy also impacts spellings for the same reason, as the person giving the information to the recorder could not check for accuracy.

Also free, but limited are -
http://www.freecen.org.uk/ and
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Always check information against the original record of documents before adding to your database to maintain its integrity. It is time consuming/costly to obtain the original and check the background information, but it can avoid great distress in the future.

Have you checked with your local library to see if they subscribe to Ancestry or any other genealogy databases which can be accessed from the library?

I've bombarded you with information, but I hope it doesn't put you off. :lol:

Frances
John Kelly (b 22 Sep 1897) eldest child of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett Kelly of Glasgow

kooltech
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:33 pm

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by kooltech » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:03 pm

Thanks for all your help. I will check out the sites you mentioned.

I had thought about subscribing to Ancestry.co.uk, but they don't seem to carry many Scottish records?

I will also have a good read through the forum and try to pick up as many tips on searching etc as I can, and try to be more methodical.

Thanks again

Bill

SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5546
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by SarahND » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:14 pm

Hello Bill,
Everything I was supposed to do today got rained out, so to avoid going stir-crazy, I had a look for your family :D

There are so many John Robertsons married to Isabellas that I'm wondering whether a few of these might have got mixed up. Assuming that the Gloucester part was correct I initially looked for Aitken (because of his refreshingly unusual name). Going backwards through census records (on Ancestry.com) I ended up with a family who was living in or near Edinburgh before leaving Scotland, John being a coachmaker. Is this the correct John? If so, I have him in Edinburgh in 1841; South Leith in 1851; South East Leeds, Yorkshire in 1861; Barton St Michael, Gloucestershire in 1871.
He died sometime in the next decade, since Isabella is a widow in 1881, living with son James in Gloucester.

In 1881 Isabella says she was born in Midlothian and Atken says he was born in Edinburgh. In 1851 she specifies Borthwick and John claims to have been born in Liberton. It seems odd therefore that Isabella and John would have married in Inverness. How did you find this information?

This John Robertson married Isabella Hope on 2 Dec 1833 in St Cuthberts, Edinburgh. She was the daughter of Thomas Hope. The marriage record says:
"John Robertson Coach Builder Residing in No18 Potter Row and Isabella Hope Residing in No4 Davie Street both in this Parish Daughter of the late Thomas Hope, Coachman in Calton Street have been three times proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church of St Cuthberts and no Objections have been Offered"

Now, back to the original problem, I'm coming to the conclusion that the Gloucester family is not yours. You say you descend from an Alexander Robertson and there is no child by that name who appears in any of the censuses with this couple. So maybe the entire family is wrong and we have to go back to the drawing board… :roll:

I am very sympathetic to the problem of searching Robertsons in Scotland, as I have spent many hours doing so myself. Nearly as bad as Stewart! :wink:

Starting with what you know for sure to be the case, where is Alexander living and what is his occupation? Which of his children is your ancestor?

In genealogy everything has to go backwards from the facts that we are reasonably sure about. I'll keep looking, since it's still raining… but any help you can give would be appreciated!

All the best,
Sarah

kooltech
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:33 pm

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by kooltech » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:12 am

Hi Sarah

Thank you so much for spending time on my family tree,

facts I am pretty certain of are



my G grandfather was Alexander Robertson (joiner) born Edinburgh Sept 1870 he married a Elizabeth Patterson on 27/6/1895 in Edinburgh




from this I found his parents alexander Robertson & May Dow married in Aberdeen in 1867 (maybe this is where I went wrong)

this led me to his parents - John Robertson & Isabella Fraser married in Inverness in 11/7/1830.

I will double check all this later today - but as its 2am here now and I start work at 7am :( I'd better call it a night.

Best wishes

Bill

SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5546
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Re: Newbie needs Help

Post by SarahND » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:00 am

Hello Bill,
I'm in a time zone 8 hours behind you so can still work on this while you sleep :D It seems that Alex the son of Alex & May Dow was born in Aberdeen St Nicholas, rather than in Edinburgh. According to the censuses, he was the last of the family born in Aberdeen before they moved south. His father Alexander was a Seaman in the Merchant Service, but eventually became Pier Master. I hope this occupation was given for his father on the 1895 marriage certificate or I've got the wrong family again...

You're right that on the 1867 marriage certificate his father's parents are given as John Robertson and Isabella Fraser, but there is an important note there: John Robertson - Seaman Merchant Service - deceased and Isabella Robertson M.S. Fraser (deceased)
Both of his parents were deceased by 1867, so they can't be the ones found in Gloucester later on. It looks like his father was already deceased by the 1851 census :( where Isabella is a seaman's widow in Aberdeen with four sons: Andrew, William, John and Alex. Interestingly enough, Andrew was born in Inverness! So I think you found the correct marriage =D>

Another interesting thing is that in 1851 Isabella says she was born in England, so you won't escape the English records after all. Who knows what they were all doing in Inverness. Have you downloaded the image of the 1830 marriage? Just wondering whether it said anything about their parents.

I highly recommend that you have a look at the census records, as these 10-year snapshots of their lives help to clarify many things.

[cheers]
Sarah

Post Reply