Narrowing Down Results - HELP

[Andy]

Hi,

Got Lily Taylor's birth cert today. Mother's maiden name Warner. No marriage for George Taylor and Bessie Ellen Warner in a five year period either side of when they SAY they married but there is a 1906 one in Rochdale for this couple and ONLY one George and Bessie E. TaylEr in Rochdale in 1911. No deaths of a Bessie Ellen for the time period.

Had a few other problems with Bessie, she was born Betsy Ellen and this name doesn't pick up as an "Include Varients" on Find My Past.

Well on the way now tho'

Thanks,

Andy

[SarahND]

Hi Andy,
The birth of Ernest Taylor Warner in 2nd quarter 1891, Oldham seems to indicate they certainly weren't married by then!

Same with Ethel Taylor Warner in 1899 in Rochdale… etc.

Not sure how they managed to get Lily registered as a Taylor instead of a Taylor Warner-- Joseph should be the only legitimate one of the lot!


Sarah

[nelmit]

This looks like the lady herself in 1881 -

4 North St, Wardleworth, Rochester

James Warner 30
Ellen Warner 29
Betsy E. Warner 11
Samuel Warner 9
Esther Warner 7
James Warner 5
Mary Warner 3
Lily Warner
Esther Collins 19

Thank goodness I didn't put my earlier thoughts to record.......I was way off!!

Regards,
Annette

[AnneM]

Hi again Andy

I'm sure you have this but is this the parents of Betsy/Bessie

Marriage: 22 May 1869 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
James Warner - 19 Plumber Bachelor of Milnrow Road
Ellen Ellison - (X), 18 Spinster of Milnrow Road
Groom's Father: Henry Warner, Painter
Bride's Father: Samuel Ellison, Tinplate Worker
Witness: Henry Warner, (X); Mary Banks
Married by Banns by: J. F. Jenkin Curate
Register: Marriages 1868 - 1871, Page 63, Entry 125
Source: LDS Film 1484386

Looks as though they at least managed to get married before the kids came along!

Anne

[AnneM]

Scrub that. That Betsy appears in the census with her parents in 1891.......unless she has been counted twice for some odd reason. Curiouser and curiouser..

Anne

This is very confusing! I reckon that without the marriage certificate you will struggle to be sure that Betsy Ellen and Bessie Ellen are the same person.

[garibaldired]

Sarah wrote:

Not sure how they managed to get Lily registered as a Taylor instead of a Taylor Warner-

-

I'm not sure it was all that difficult. I have at least one from 1909 where the child was registered to an unmarried couple as though they were married. I know they weren't as he was still maried to someone else.......

Presumably the couple just presented themselves as married?
Best wishes,
Meg

[AnneM]

Bessie, junior, herself seems to have been registered as Bessie Taylor Warner in the September quarter of 1901 in Rochdale Vol 8e page 31. Were I you I would probably want to have both that certificate and the 1906 marriage of George and Betsy/Bessie Ellen before going any further back to be on sure ground. If luck holds you will find that Bessie Ellen's father is given as James the plumber, which will indicate that her parents listed her in their household in 1891 in case the neighbours found out their eldest was away living in sin. Wonder why she and George did not marry. Could he have had an ill advised early marriage which would be difficult to track down. Here's an idea maybe the Bessie Taylor with George in 1891 was his first wife! There were a lot of Elizabeth/Bessies around then.

This deferred gratification is not good for us Scottish researchers who are used to records cheaply and on demand!

Anne

BTW Betsy and family are indexed on FMP as Wainer but are clearly Warner. For once Ancestry has it right. Betsy Ellen daughter of James and Ellen was born in March 1870 and baptised in Sep 1870 according to the IGI. The records for the church of her baptism, St Chad's, Rochdale have not yet been transcribed for that date by the Lancashire online parish clerk.

[Andy]

All of these families could have been Gold Medallists at the Olympic Hide-and-Seek finals!

The address on Lily's birth was the same as 1911 census. The 1906 Marriage cert gives the same address AND names James, a Plumber, as Bessie Ellen's father.

Given the childrens' names on the 1911 and 1901 census, backed up by the same address in 1911, 1906 and 1905 this has to be the correct family. George's occupation is consistenly given as a Drawer or Drawer & Twister - the only George Taylor I can find with this occupation. I'm very confident I have the correct family and parents for this couple, despite Betsy being listed with James and Ellen in 1891 and with George as Bettie E. in Oldham at the same time.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

Andy

[SarahND]

Glad it all worked out!

Regards,
Sarah

[AnneM]

Great that you've proved that they're the same people. Have fun looking for Betsy Ellen's parents on the earlier censuses. I had a wee gander just for interest and hide and seek has nothing to that lot. Glad they're yours and not mine

Anne