James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

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darylrodger
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:09 pm
Location: Waterfoot, Glasgow

James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by darylrodger » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:15 pm

Hi,

I'm trying to find a James Devine b.c. 1855 in Ireland to William Devine & Catherine Ann Ferguson.
He married in 1877 in Govan, Glasgow and according to his marriage cert, his father William was still alive, although his mother Catherine was deceased.
His father William remarried, to Margaret Gormley but can't find out when. James died in 1918, and both his father and 2nd wife were deceased according
to his death cert.

I'd like to know where James and his family came from.

They were Roman Catholic.

Can anyone help me find them ?

Regards,

Daryl

AndrewP
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Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by AndrewP » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:56 pm

Hi Daryl,

Have you found him in the censuses?

If he was in Scotland at the time of the 1881, 1891, 1901, and 1911 censuses, then it is worth looking at each of them. All the census enumerator was obliged to write was "Ireland" for someone from Ireland living in Scotland. However, it was not uncommon for the county (or very occasionally a town, village or parish name) in Ireland to be given on the census form. These have to be worth your while investing in.

All the best,

AndrewP

darylrodger
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:09 pm
Location: Waterfoot, Glasgow

Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by darylrodger » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:04 pm

Hi Andrew,

I have already looked at the census's to find James or his family, and to get an idea of when they came over from Ireland, but I've found nothing apart from
finding James as a lodger in 1871. No records for his parents/siblings that I'm aware of.

Regards,

Daryl

AndrewP
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Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by AndrewP » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:27 pm

Hi Daryl,

I see no sign of the 1877 marriage in Govan on ScotlandsPeople. What was his wife's name? Was it definitely 1877?

All the best,

AndrewP

darylrodger
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Location: Waterfoot, Glasgow

Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by darylrodger » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Hi Andrew,

My mistake, he married in Port Glasgow on 17 June 1877 to Mary Callaghan. He died on 1 Oct 1918 in Govan, Glasgow.

Regards,

Daryl

darylrodger
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:09 pm
Location: Waterfoot, Glasgow

Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by darylrodger » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:13 pm

Hi Andrew,

I had a look at the 1911 census, and found James in Govan. It has an entry beside birthplace, Derry, which is scored out beside Ireland. I notice that other
entries for Irish entries are also scored out. Could this be where he was born ?

Regards,

Daryl

AndrewP
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Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by AndrewP » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:10 am

Hi Daryl,

I would take that to mean that the census enumerator had taken too much information, and an official had 'corrected' this by deleting Irish place names and putting 'Ireland' in, as that is what the census instructions asked for. So "yes", I would say Derry is where you should start looking for the birth of James.

What that information doesn't tell you is whether it is the town of Derry, or the county of Derry that you should be looking in. It would be worth looking at the other Irish entries on the page, to see if they are town names or county names.

See the following webpage for the Irish counties.

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~cronews/geog/ ... e1901.html

All the best,

AndrewP

Elwyn 1
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Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by Elwyn 1 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:22 am

Statutory registration of births, deaths and RC marriages didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 so you won’t find a birth certificate for James Devine. You might find his baptism though. Some RC records have been digitized but not all. Rootsireland (subscription site) has 2 matches for James Devine born c 1855 in Co. Derry but you would need to take out a subscription to get the full details. Likewise to search for his parents marriages.

I can’t see the 2nd marriage in the stat records, nor can I see a death of a Catherine Devine post 1864 in Co Derry that would be of the right age. So I think she probably died before 1864 and that the remarriage was also before 1864. So again you are down to searching church records.

Most surviving RC parish records for the 1800s are on-line free on this link. However they are not digitised as on the rootsireland site and you have to go through them parish by parish which can be time consuming. There are several dozen parishes in Co Derry. As has been said your problem is knowing whether Derry means the city or the county. However you could start with the city. The parish is Templemore and the RC church for an 1855 baptism would be Long Tower, which is still in use today.

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes

darylrodger
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Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by darylrodger » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:02 pm

Hi,

Many thanks for your advice Andrew & Elwyn 1.

I've had a look on RootsIreland, but still can't find a birth or marriages for James or his parents. Although, I did find these monumental inscription records
for these possible matching people;

I can't find William's death on the NI direct website either.

William Devine
d. 4 Dec 1879 in Templemore, Co. Derry
Aged 66 yrs

Catherine Devine
d. 8 Oct 1856 in Templemore, Co. Derry

Margaret Devine (2nd wife )
d. 18 July 1861 in Templemore, Co. Derry
Aged 34 yrs

All 3 of them are in the same plot no .0745 in the Derry City cemetery. I wonder if these are the right parents for James ?

I also checked the entry for the 1911 census, and the other Irish entries state county names, i.e. Co. Down, & Sligo so I assume it refers to counties, not Towns ?

What should I try next ? I'm a newbie with RC records :roll:

Regards,

Daryl

Elwyn 1
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: James Devine b.c.1855 In Ireland But Where ?

Post by Elwyn 1 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:38 am

I looked for William’s death but cannot see it on the GRONI site nor on the Irish civil indexes in Ancestry. So either it wasn’t registered, the date is wrong, or he died outside Ireland and was just buried there (unlikely, but not impossible). If it’s any consolation, in comparison to Scottish death certs, Irish ones don’t contain very much information, so you may not be missing that much. There’s no parents names or spouses names etc, unless they happen to be the informant, which obviously won’t be the case here.

Both wives deaths pre-date stat registration so you won’t get much there.

You could try the papers to see if there was any information given there in the death notices. Tradition in Ireland is to bury 3 days after death, so search 1 and 2 days after each death. Perhaps the Derry Journal (prior to 1880 known as the Londonderry Journal). It was only published 3 times a week then so there’s probably only 1 edition to check for each death. Copies of most old newspapers are held in Belfast Central Library.

Do you know what William Devine’s occupation was? You might find him in a street directory for Derry. They are on-line:

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_th ... tories.htm

There should be addresses to go with the plot number you found. The City Cemetery will normally give you those.

No easy answers with a lot of Irish research, I am afraid. The 1831 census for Co Derry has survived and is on the NLI site. You can see how many Wm Devines there were in the county using it.

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