Hello again Nina,
Sorry to hear of your recent loss of your parenst but you have the satisfaction of knowing you were thee for your mother when she needed you. And family history research can be time very consuming and you need to be focused in order to keep all the links together. I've pretty well finished the Mcentee side of the family but still have a couple of holes.
This is the infomation I am still missing:
The where and when of the deaths of John parents.
His father Bernard McEntee was alive in 1869 (he was a witness to Marianne's 1869 marriage) but was dead by july 1870 (John's marriage).
His mother Mary Breslin, leased the family plot in Eshywulligan till 1889 when it passed to her daughter Margaret (I assume she died around this time).
John's daughter Margaret married a John McCormmick ----- can't find what became of the family.
John's son John McEntee Jr vanished after the 1911 Scotland census ----- I can't find what became of him.
Incidentaly, John McEntee and MarAnn McAloon had another daughter. Catherine McEntee was born in Eshywulligan, Ireland, in 1878. The wee bairn died in Glassgow in 1880.
Incidently, I am in Australia as well --- about 100 klms south of Sydney.
Take care and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Kind regards,
Bill
Irish BDM registrations
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billymac
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Elwyn 1
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Re: Irish BDM registrations
Bill,
Regarding Bernard McEntee’s death, Griffiths Valuation shows the family farm in Eshywulligan as being in Mary’s name in 1862. That probably indicates he had died before that (and thus before the start of death registration in Ireland).
Regarding Bernard McEntee’s death, Griffiths Valuation shows the family farm in Eshywulligan as being in Mary’s name in 1862. That probably indicates he had died before that (and thus before the start of death registration in Ireland).
Elwyn
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billymac
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Re: Irish BDM registrations
Hello Elwyn, Thanks for your thoughts.
I had also wondered about Mary McAtee's (nee Breslin) name on that lease in the valuation. My thinking was she originally held the lease {part (e) of section 1} along with other family members (all Breslins ---possibly brothers) who held parts (a),(c) (d) of that same section 1 and they left things as they were when the valuation was done.
Her daughter Marianne McEntee married a James McDonald in Rosslea Catholic chapel in November of 1869. On the registration, Bernard McEntee is shown as "father". It does not note if he is deceased or not but that could just be an omission. However, one of the witnesses is "Bernard McEntee" (although it's possible he's a brother) ---- the 2nd witness also witnessed another marriage on the same page so may well have been a church official.
Their son John McEntee married in Glasgow in July 1870 and that registration states Bernard is deceased.
This led me down the path of thinking Bernard died between November 1869 and July 1870.
I did purchase a possible registration some years ago (registered in Enniskillen I believe) but a couple of details in it did not fit. As you also mentioned, it is a relatively unusual name in Fermanagh.
Anyway, all the best for Christmas and may 2024 look on you kindly,
Best regards,
Bill![[cheers]](./images/smilies/cheers.gif "Cheers")
I had also wondered about Mary McAtee's (nee Breslin) name on that lease in the valuation. My thinking was she originally held the lease {part (e) of section 1} along with other family members (all Breslins ---possibly brothers) who held parts (a),(c) (d) of that same section 1 and they left things as they were when the valuation was done.
Her daughter Marianne McEntee married a James McDonald in Rosslea Catholic chapel in November of 1869. On the registration, Bernard McEntee is shown as "father". It does not note if he is deceased or not but that could just be an omission. However, one of the witnesses is "Bernard McEntee" (although it's possible he's a brother) ---- the 2nd witness also witnessed another marriage on the same page so may well have been a church official.
Their son John McEntee married in Glasgow in July 1870 and that registration states Bernard is deceased.
This led me down the path of thinking Bernard died between November 1869 and July 1870.
I did purchase a possible registration some years ago (registered in Enniskillen I believe) but a couple of details in it did not fit. As you also mentioned, it is a relatively unusual name in Fermanagh.
Anyway, all the best for Christmas and may 2024 look on you kindly,
Best regards,
Bill
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Elwyn 1
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
- Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland
Re: Irish BDM registrations
Bill,
You can’t rely on Irish marriage certificates to say whether a father is alive or dead. Sometimes his death was noted but frequently they didn’t bother. The odd time there’s a name but no occupation which can be a clue that he is dead. The Scots were generally fairly meticulous in recording parents names and whether they were alive or dead. If only the Irish had been similarly careful!
Until the Married Woman’s Property Act (1882), a married woman couldn’t own anything (including a lease). It was all regarded as her husband’s property. So if Mary had inherited the farm whilst Bernard was alive it would automatically have been recorded as his property and in his name. That her name is shown in 1862 indicates she was either a widow or a single woman.
I had a look at the church copy of the 1869 marriage but it doesn’t provide any additional information. I suspect that the Bernard who was a witness was either a brother or other relation.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 7/mode/1up
The absence of a death certificate in Ireland plus Mary being the tenant in 1862 all points to Bernard having died pre 1862, in my opinion. Sadly the RC church generally didn’t usually keep burial records (and Roslea RC has none), so unless there’s a gravestone, there may be no written record of his death. I did look for a will, 1858 onwards but there’s none in PRONI.
You can’t rely on Irish marriage certificates to say whether a father is alive or dead. Sometimes his death was noted but frequently they didn’t bother. The odd time there’s a name but no occupation which can be a clue that he is dead. The Scots were generally fairly meticulous in recording parents names and whether they were alive or dead. If only the Irish had been similarly careful!
Until the Married Woman’s Property Act (1882), a married woman couldn’t own anything (including a lease). It was all regarded as her husband’s property. So if Mary had inherited the farm whilst Bernard was alive it would automatically have been recorded as his property and in his name. That her name is shown in 1862 indicates she was either a widow or a single woman.
I had a look at the church copy of the 1869 marriage but it doesn’t provide any additional information. I suspect that the Bernard who was a witness was either a brother or other relation.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls ... 7/mode/1up
The absence of a death certificate in Ireland plus Mary being the tenant in 1862 all points to Bernard having died pre 1862, in my opinion. Sadly the RC church generally didn’t usually keep burial records (and Roslea RC has none), so unless there’s a gravestone, there may be no written record of his death. I did look for a will, 1858 onwards but there’s none in PRONI.
Elwyn