Researching Price, Abergavenny & Trevethin, Pontypool, M

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JustJean
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 am

Hi Lorna
Alas I only wish I knew which Allisons were mine! :cry: My family story has yet to produce any concrete evidence. My GrGrGrandmother was Jane Allison Niblock. Records show her mother to be Margaret Allison and her father John Niblock....or unknown!!. I have no birth record for Jane or death info for either parent. The story has them lost at sea with Jane being raised in Glasgow by an uncle in Maryhill. I suspect the story got over embellished a wee bit :shock:

I hope you continue to visit TalkingScot even if you don't have any questions for us. You'll find there is always some kind of banter going on in the background.....and from time to time we entertain everyone with our online parties :lol: Don't forget that you can leave a private message through this site for any registered member at any time....just click on the "you have no new messages" link at the top of the forum. It takes you to your inbox/outbox and I think you can figure it out from there!

Best wishes
Jean

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price - Abergavenny & Trevethin Mons.

Post by Lorna Allison » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:43 pm

Hi Mary

Phrenology? I've been looking it up on the web and see it is akin to quack psychology very popular in the 19th Century.

A bit worrying that his son in law commits suicide. Wonder if father in law had been practising on him?

Since Charles Curzon had previously described himself as a Book Agent I suppose that is where the "Traveller" comes in. Here in Scotland a Traveller is something quite different now. I suppose back in the 1800s though that interesting, dying out breed would probably have been called gipsies or tinkers and would definitely not have been living in a house and filling in a census form! :roll:

Bye for now

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:10 am

Hello All

OK, let’s see what we can make of it all. I’m pretty sure this is the right family but because there are one or two inconsistencies and because it doesn’t follow the family story all that closely, it needs a bit of care. Perhaps some of our resident experts can look through it and give an opinion as to whether it looks right?

Because we’ve jumped about a bit and because some bits – 1881 census – haven’t actually been posted I’ll try and bring all the pieces together.

We’re looking for Lorna’s grandmother, whom she remembers, so this is a solid starting point. The grandmother is Florence Mary Price and we have the details from her marriage certificate. She married Herbert Edward Blackney on 09 April 1903. She was 19, employed as a Housemaid and was living at 35 Newlands Park, Beckenham in Kent. Her father was John Price, farmer, deceased by the time of her marriage. She was, according to family story, living with the Franks family.

Family story also says that they came from Abegavenny, parish of Tredegar, that were sisters G(J)inny and Em and a brother, name unknown. Mother died and father committed suicide after her death so Florence was an orphan by the age of 7. The11- yr-old sister Em and Florence were taken into service in London by the Franks family. G(J)inny stayed in Wales and married. The brother, name unknown, was shipped off to Australia to relatives.

So, given the hard facts of the marriage certificate, I don’t think there’s any problem with accepting the 1901 Florence Price census entry as found in Beckenham. The age is right and she’s living at 35 Newlands Park with the Franks family.

1901 Census
RG13/689 - Reg Dist Bromley - Sub Reg Dist Beckenham
Enum Dist 17 - Folio 140 - Page 23

35 Newlands Park
Schedule 164

Percy Franks - Head - Mar - 32 - Secretary to Public Corp(?) CC (County Council?) - born Kent, Sevenoaks
Agnes Franks - Wife - Mar - 31 - born Kent, Sevenoaks
Margaret Franks - Dau - 2 - born Kent, Beckenham
Florence Price - Servant - Single - 19 - Domestic Servant - born Monmouths, Pontypool

Everyone happy with this?

This gives us a place of birth of Pontypool which is not far from Abergavenny.

In 1891 there’s no sign of any Price family with the Franks family who have no servants at all at this stage. This means that Em and Florence couldn’t have gone straight to them after being orphaned. This makes sense as they would have been very young – much more likely that they remained in Wales with family for a while.

In the 1891 Wales census the are several entries for Florence Price of the right sort of age in the right area. However, most of these can be ruled out as they are living with fathers of the wrong name. Two or three are daughters of a John Price but names of siblings don’t tie in. In any case, Florence is known to be orphaned by this stage. (I suspect that several of these families will be related to ‘ours’ though.)

There is only one Florence Price down as born in Pontypool. She is living with an uncle and aunt which fits with her being orphaned and she has the middle initial ‘M’. The only thing which doesn’t fit is her age – she’s down as 11 not 9 which is what would be expected from the 1901 census and marriage cert.

1891 Census
RG12/4361 - Reg Dist Pontypool - Sub Reg Dist Pontypool
Enum Dist 2 - Folio 34 - Page 16

Sched 95
95 Albion Road, Trevethin (Yes, the schedule and street number happen to be the same for this entry)

John Curzon - Head - Mar - 31 - Printer - born Staffordshire, Longton
Ada Curzon - Wife - Mar - 32 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Ada M Curzon - Dau - 6 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
C N(?) J Curzon - Son - 5 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Gertrude M Curzon - 1(?) - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Stanley G Curzon - 7 (could be 1 or 2?)mo - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Florence M Price - Niece - 11 - born Monmouthshire, Pontypool

If this is the right Florence, she was born 1879/1880 not 1882. However, if it is right then her age in 1901 and on the marriage cert can possibly be explained by the fact that if she had given her correct age she would have been older than her husband-to-be. She wouldn’t be the first person to have juggled her age as a result.

If this is wrong then everything that follows is wrong!

Lorna, in the meantime, has found an 1881 entry which seems to fit the bill. As Jean discovered early on, there isn’t an 1881 entry that seems to fit if we take it that Florence had not been born till after the census.

1881 Census

RG11/5250 – reg Dist Pontypool – Sub Reg Dist Pontypool
Enum Dist 2 – Folio 67 – Page 68

Sched 294

New Road, Trevethin

John Price – Head – Mar – 34 – Butcher and Milk Seller – born Mon, Pontypool
Anne Eliz Price – Wife – Mar – 24 – born Stafford, Shelton
Sarah Jane Price – Dau – 5 – Scholar – born Mon, Pontypool
Emily Price – Dau – 3 – born Mon, Pontypool
Florence M Price – 9 mo – born Mon, Pontypool

Living next door we have

James Price – Head – Mar – 66 – Agricultural Labourer, unemployed – born Mon, Cwmyoy
Mary Price – Wife – Mar – 63 – born Hereford, Waltestone (sic)
Louisa Price – G’Dau – 7 – Scholar – born Mon, Trevethin
Howard Smith – Lodger – Unm – 18 – Gardener - born Mon, Trevethin

James and Mary could be the parents of John Price and Louisa could be another of his daughters who is living next door with granparents.

This Florence is definitely the Florence of the 1891 entry. Not only do all the details match but her mother Anne Eliz can be clearly shown to be the sister of the uncle, John Curzon, with whom Florence was living in 1891. So the 1891 Florence can be shown to be the daughter of a John Price and as having sisters Sarah Jane (Jinny?) and Emily (Em). There could be a sister Louisa as well and presumably the brother hasn’t yet been born. John isn’t exactly a farmer but he does have a job which could be seen to be related. It’s almost certain he keeps his own cows for the milk and could have all the animals which eventually stock his butcher’s shop.

Everyone with me so far?

From here I took a step back to see if the John Price in 1881 could be shown to be the son of this James and Mary Price. The 1851 census seemed to confirm this.

1851 Census

HO107/2446 - Reg Dist Abergavenny - Sub Reg Dist Llanarth
Enum Dist 9 - Folio 160 - Page 13

Cwmyoy Lower
Sched 52

Great Llwygy

James Price - Head - Mar - 36 - Farmer (110 Acres) no Labour - born Monmouth, Bwlch Terwyn
Mary Price - Wife - Mar - 33 - Farmer's Wife - born Hereford, Walterstone
John Price - Son - 5 - Farmer's son - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy
Elizabeth Price - Dau - 4 - Farmer's Daughter - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy
William Price - Son - 10 mo (wk?) - Farmer's son - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy
Elizabeth Christopher - Serv - Un - 19 - House Servant - born Monmouth, Lower Cwmyoy

I don’t think there’s any doubt that this is the same James and Mary. All the details seem right, including Mary’s birthplace, despite the slight spelling change. (This is the correct spelling.) (Research into Cwmyoy suggests that James’s birthplace should read Bwlch Trewyn, not Terwyn.)

This James is a farmer in Abergavenny so fits with the general story. He has a son John of the right age to be the John Price in the 1881 entry.

Moving to 1861 …

1861 census

RG9/3994 – Reg Dist Abergavenny – Sub Reg Dist Abergavenny
Enum Dist 11 – Folio 53 – Page 23

Sched 117 – Llantillio Pertholey Ultra

Penyclawdd

James Price – Head – Mar – 47 – farmer of 170 Acres employing 2 labourers – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
Mary Price – Wife – Mar – 43 – born Hereford, Walterstone
John Price – Son – Unm – 16 – (no occupation given) – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
Elizabeth Price – dau – 14 – Scholar – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
William Price – son – 12 – Scholar – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
Martha Price – Dau – 10 – Scholar – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
Cornelius Price – Son – 7 – Scholar – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
Mary Price – Dau – 5 – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy
James Price – Son – 1 – born Monmouth, Llantillio Pertholey
Benjamin Wistone – Serv – Unm – 60 – Farm Servant – born Monmouth, Cwmyoy

Same family as 1861 – no problem

Then 1871 …

1871 Census

RG10/5336 – Reg Dist Pontypool – Sub Reg Dist Pontypool
Enum Dist 11 – Folio 53 – Page 23

Sched 138 – Panteg

Butcher’s Shop

James Price – Head – Mar – 57 – Butcher – born Mon, Cwmyoy
Mary Price – Wife – Mar – 53 – born Mon, Cwmyoy
John Price – Son - Umn – 25 – Locomotive Engine Cleaner – born Mon, Cwmyoy
Mary Price – Dau – 15(13?) – born Mon, Cwmyoy
James Price – Son – 11 – born Mon, Cwmyoy

This is another step to be taken. Is this the same family as in 1851 and 1861? Most things tie in, Mary’s place of birth being the main difference. John’s occupation is a bit of a surprise but if this is the same family then we have the link to John’s 1881 occupation of butcher. Seems to make sense?

If this is all OK then we can follow James and Mary with son John in 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881. Even if the 7-yr-old Louisa in 1881 is John and Anne’s child, there’s still no need for us to expect John to be married in 1871 so the fact that he’s still at home in 1871 is not a problem. He’s not with his parents in 1881 but living next door with his own family.

In 1891 Florence is living with her mother’s brother which fits with both Anne and John having died by then. And this is where the trouble starts!

I decided to see if James and Mary were still alive in 1891. They do seem to be …..

1891 census

RG12/4369 – Reg Dist – Newport – Sub Reg Dist Caerleon
Enum Dist 11 – Folio 10 – Page 13

Sched 66 – Christchurch, Newport

24 Oxford Street

James Price – Head – M – 76 – Gardener – born Mon, Cwmyoy
Mary Price – Wife – M – 74 – born Cwmyoy
John Price – Son – S – 45 – Gardener – born Mon, Cwmyoy
Wm Price – G.Son – S – 7 – born Mon, Pontypool

Oh dear! If this is the same James and Mary – and I think it is, with Mary’s birthplace having become firmly local – then son John is still alive, still living at home and given as single! My immediate reaction was that I had got everything horribly wrong. However, a bit of thought suggested that all was not lost. This wouldn’t be the first time I have come across a widower classed as single. It’s easy to understand – ‘Are you married?’ – ‘No’ – so this could be the widowed John. Also, if John is still unmarried, why wasn’t he living at home, still single in 1881?

But I think the most convincing bit is the presence of grandson William. Is this the one whose name we don’t know who was shipped to Australia? Perhaps John had some kind of breakdown after Anne’s death and couldn’t cope? The girls were then farmed out to relatives and John and the son moved in with grandparents. William would be just the right age to have been born two or three years after Florence. There’s a possible death for Anne in the Dec quarter of 1885 – Annie Price, aged 29, Pontypool – 11a 77. (There are a couple of other possible deaths at around the same time but I think this is the most likely.)

Looking even further ahead …

1901 census

RG13/4962 – Reg Dist Newport – Sub Reg Dist Newport
Enum Dist 53 – Folio 36 – Page 17

Sched 95 – Newport

31 Glebe St

James Price – Head – M – 87 – Gardener (Jobbing) – born Mon, Cwmynyswy
William Price – Grandson – S – 18 – Gardener (Jobbing) – born Mon, Pontypool
John Powell – Boarder – Widower – 78 – Boot Maker – born Somerset, Bath

Same James? Probably, despite the place of birth which could well be a misinterpretation of Cwmyoy. Certainly the same William I would say. So if this is our unknown grandson, he didn’t get shipped off to Australia straight away.

Both Mary and John have disappeared, even though James is still shown as married. Perhaps Mary was in hospital? John could well have committed suicide between 1891 and 1901. He would then have been deceased at the time of Florence’s marriage so the fact that he seems to be alive in 1891, some time after we expected, doesn’t conflict with that info. I don't think we have definite info that John died when Florence was 7. If this death in the Dec quarter 1885 is her mother then she would have been 7 then. Perhaps the family split up at this point but she was only finally orphaned some time after 1891?

I know the places vary but they are all fairly close together in the general Newport/Ponypool/Abergavenny area.

Anyway, there it all is. What do you all think? Is this Lorna’s family? BMD research would probably help but there’s no point in trying that if this isn’t right in the first place.

Over to you …..

Lorna – I was a war baby too but lucky enough to know three out of my four grandparents well. I never knew my maternal grandfather who died some time before I was born but I was 19-23 when the other three died.

I rather like the phrenology - sounds much more interesting that book agent!

Which part of rural Perthshire are you in? I go through there regularly – will give you a wave next time!

Mary
Last edited by MaryE on Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price - Abargavenny and Trevethin

Post by Lorna Allison » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:32 am

Hi Mary

I am just starting to digest all that great stuff! One thing though - I can put your mind at rest about the Florence/Curzon connection.

Collating my info today I realised that I had the proof right there:

The witnesses at Florence's marriage were P J Franks and C G CURZON!!

I know, I know - how didn't I see that before? :oops:

Well, that settles that then, I am just reeling that all the time Father Price might have been alive. I am going to study all you say and can only offer my most sincere thanks.

I shall let you know how to contact me and look forward to hooking up!

Bye for now

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Price - Abergavenny & Trevethin

Post by Lorna Allison » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:14 pm

Well Mary

I can fairly say "Whaur's yer Jeremy Paxman noo, eh?"

I realise that you expert researchers need everything absolutely watertight - and I respect that - but for me your dates, names and places seem to fit too snugly to be anything other than the real trail back down the Price family tree.

Thinking last night about a young man bereft of wife and children, bar one, possibly unbalanced and no decent job, oh dear. What has always haunted me about that family line is that, since then, there have been two further suicides in succeeding generations. Thankfully my children's generation has not been touched. . . . . Well, let's be upbeat, good soncy blood has been introduced each generation to dilute the depressive streak.

I have signed up for Ancestry.co.uk

I have joined (ing) the Gwent FHS

I am in process of booking a "working break" (in the converted barn) at my ancestral home in Cwmyoy to allow me to spend the day at Gwent FHS Open Day on 1st April (little plug there).

I am about to commence raking through BMDs

AND I am expecting to meet up with you (don't let me down).

What a positive start to 2006.


To Everyone:

Thank you, thank you. I am hooked on Talking Scotland now, naturally, and expect to come across you in other topics as I have had a look around and see that a lot of my general questions are already answered elsewhere, so - I chanced on a goldmine (all thanks to a reference in Lanark FHS' recent newsletter)

However, first I must get my sleep pattern back to normal! Midnight posting must not become the norm.

If I turn up William in Australia I just am going to come back and let you know - you have been warned.

Best wishes

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: Price - Abergavenny & Trevethin

Post by DavidWW » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:34 pm

Lorna Allison wrote:Well Mary

I can fairly say "Whaur's yer Jeremy Paxman noo, eh?"
Quite :!: :!:

What disappointed me about the first WDYTYA series, and evidenced by this first episode of the second series is the almost total lack of explanation of the very detailed research that I know must have lead to the various records involved...........

In the case of Mr Paxman, - it's obvious that you just walk into The Mitchell, and 2 minutes later, they produce for you relevant school records in terms of the jannie and the pupils, - aye weel, I can only comment that such records would have taken at least several hours hard work to locate :!: :!:

Similarly in terms of the Glasgow Sally Allie records, - you just walk into the relevant citadel, and fascinating, very appropriate records are there waiting for you with minimal effort ............. :!: :!: , - I'd be surprised if these associated Salvation Army research took less than 2 or 3 days to locate, both in Glesca and Cornwall .........
Lorna Allison wrote:I realise that you expert researchers need everything absolutely watertight - and I respect that - but for me your dates, names and places seem to fit too snugly to be anything other than the real trail back down the Price family tree.
"Watertight" is great if that that can be achieved, but, so often, it's a question of the balance of probabilities ............ :)
Lorna Allison wrote:Thinking last night about a young man bereft of wife and children, bar one, possibly unbalanced and no decent job, oh dear. What has always haunted me about that family line is that, since then, there have been two further suicides in succeeding generations. Thankfully my children's generation has not been touched. . . . . Well, let's be upbeat, good soncy blood has been introduced each generation to dilute the depressive streak.
I like the "guid soncy" aspect !!
Lorna Allison wrote:I have signed up for Ancestry.co.uk

I have joined (ing) the Gwent FHS
Both have to be worthwhile .............
Lorna Allison wrote:I am in process of booking a "working break" (in the converted barn) at my ancestral home in Cwmyoy to allow me to spend the day at Gwent FHS Open Day on 1st April (little plug there).

I am about to commence raking through BMDs

AND I am expecting to meet up with you (don't let me down).

What a positive start to 2006.
Sounds good !!

Lorna Allison wrote:To Everyone:

Thank you, thank you. I am hooked on Talking Scotland now, naturally, and expect to come across you in other topics as I have had a look around and see that a lot of my general questions are already answered elsewhere, so - I chanced on a goldmine (all thanks to a reference in Lanark FHS' recent newsletter)
There you go :shock:
Lorna Allison wrote:However, first I must get my sleep pattern back to normal! Midnight posting must not become the norm.
And why not, pray :?: :!: :shock:

David

CatrionaL
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Post by CatrionaL » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:35 pm

Lorna,

We would be disappointed if you didn't come back and tell us about your "William" finds. It's been exciting reading through the posts about the Prices and seeing the pieces of the jigsaw come together. Who needs Miss Marples when we have MaryE? =D>

You look like having an interesting year on the genealogy front. Enjoy every minute of it.

Best wishes
Catriona
Last edited by CatrionaL on Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:59 pm

Hi Lorna
So much for my "I don't think I can help much with your Welsh "problems" - it looks like you have tough job ahead there" back at the beginning of this query! :roll:

But that's what so good about a forum like this - if one person can't help there's a good chance someone else will come along who can!! MaryE's done a brilliant job with this one (and surely now must also hold the record for the longest post??! \:D/ ) and I've been following it with interest all along. I'm so glad you were able to find out all that you did.

Best wishes
Lesley MPA
- member of the "Midnight Posters Association" :lol:
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:58 pm

Hello Laura et al

Yes, it has been fun, hasn't it? I've thoroughly enjoyed the hunt for the Price family. FH is always fun but it's even better when you get a result! :lol:

Lorna - it sounds as though your English/Welsh genealogy is definitely up and running. I'm sure you'll find Ancestry good value because you'll now have several more lines to pursue south of the border as each one will lead to another. Joining the Gwent FHS is also a good move and how exciting that you're going to stay at Great Llwygy - not many of us can actually go and stay at the ancestral home!

I think you'd also find members of the Price family still living in the Pontypool area. John Price, son of James and Mary, had several siblings - a letter to one of the local papers outlining what you know might lead you to dozens of cousins!

And yes, I'd love to meet up sometime - I'll email you about my travels in rural Perthshire.

I won't spoil your fun with Ancestry by carrying on the search but I must post this one last bit as it's got an amazing twist to it.

The proof that the 1881/1891 Florence is definitely linked to the 1901 Florence by the name Curzon on her marriage cert is absolutely great. It removes any shadow of doubt about that Beckenham-back-to-Pontypool link. (And don't worry, we've all missed a vital bit of evidence - it's so easy to do, especially when you're not aware of the name in the first place.) However, I also came up with what felt amounted to proof late last night and it had a very surprising side to it.

I tried looking for Sarah Jane and Emily in 1891 and 1901 to see if there was any substance in the story of sisters going to London. I couldn't find Sarah Jane anywhere in either census - perhaps I should have looked for Jane or Jinny instead? - but I did find Emily.

I looked in England in 1891 but there was no sign of her so I turned to Wales. There were several of the right name and roughly the right age and birthplace but one was a better match than the others.

1891 Census

RG12/4364 - Reg Dist Pontypool - Sub Reg Dist Pontypool
Enum Dist 26 - Folio 75 - Page 45

Sched 280
Panteg Wern School House

Frederick French - Head - M - 34 - Elementary School Teacher - born Middlesex, Pimlico
Clara French - Wife - M - 38 - born Warwick, Birmingham, All Saints
Lily French - Dau - 13 - Scholar - born Warwick, Birmingham, Small Heath
Ethel French - Dau - 11 - Scholar - born Derby, Eckington
Gertrude French - Dau - 9 - Scholar - born Warwick, Small Heath
Frederick French - Son - 6 Scholar - born Warwick, Small Heath
Kate French - Dau - 3 - born Monmouth, Glascoed
Emily Price - Serv - 14 - General Servant (domestic) - born Monmouth, Panteg

This Emily is the right age and Panteg is near enough Pontypool to be acceptable - she may even have been born in Panteg and Pontypool had been used in 1881 in a general sense. The other thing that makes me fairly sure it's 'your' Emily is the fact that there are several Birmingham births here and you said, in a very early post on this thread 'Em - who married Fred Smith and went to live in Birmingham.' It's circumstantial evidence but pretty strong I would say.

Now when you mentioned Birmingham I was mildly interested because that's where I was born and where my mother, grandfather and at least three earlier generations were born - but Birmingham is a big place. Anyway, you'd also said that you thought she was married by 1901 so having looked briefly for her in Wales I turned to England and looked for Emily Smith, born Monmouth. There were no likely hits so I tried Emily Price and there she was:

1901 Census

RG13/2875 - Reg Dist Aston - Sub Reg Dist Erdington (both of these are Birmingham)
Enum Dist 2 - Folio 22 - Pages 1 & 2

Sched 5
Roath House, Gravelly Hill

Clement G Hart - Head - M - 27 - Provision Merchant's Manager - born Birmingham, Saltley
Emma J Hart - Wife - M - 24 - born Glamorgan, Cardiff
Emily Price - Serv - S - 23 - Housemaid (domestic) - born Monmouth, Pontypool
Clara Jones - Serv - S - 38 - Cook (domestic) - born Monmouth, Newchurch

Everything fits for Emily and there are South Wales links with the birthplace of the wife and the cook so it must be the right Emily. But what makes it particularly interesting for me is that your grandmother's sister was living literally round the corner from my grandparents' house and the house where I spent the first three and a half years of my life! My grandparents hadn't actually bought that house in 1901 - they were a couple of miles away at the time in Saltley. I think they bought it fairly soon after my mother's birth in 1904. But it's still an amazing coincidence - the small world of family history! My grandmother lived in the house for the rest of her life - she died in 1964 aged 90 - and the house was only sold in the mid 1970's when her eldest daughter died. I know Gravelly Hill very well - I used to walk down it every Sunday with my grandmother to church. The parish on this census entry is Erdington St Barnabas - that's the church where my parents were married and where I was baptised. I wonder if Emily was married there?

Anyway, this is something of a digression but I did get all excited last night when I found it!

Stew - I forgot to acknowledge your post re the name Jesse. Yes it is a boy's name and like you I've always assumed that it was a male version of Jessie but I don't know for certain. Anybody with nodding acquaintance with Britain will be familiar with Boots the Chemist. The founder of this was Jesse Boot. My father used to see him in the early 1900's. He was an old man and my father was just a child but he lived not all that far from where my father and his family lived in Nottingham. The first Boots chemist shop was in the centre of Nottingham and it all grew from that one shop.

Lesley - I like the idea of the idea of the MPA. I'm a member myself I think - and if not I come pretty near it! How many other members has it got? Perhaps we could have a special midnight party 8)

Lorna - keep us in touch with your FH. I hope you find William in Australia!

Mary

Lorna Allison
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Perthshire

Post by Lorna Allison » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:35 pm

I won't spoil your fun with Ancestry

Hi Mary

You must be joking! My efforts with Ancestry are the genealogical equivalent of "the slow boat to China".

If you have the desire, the time (and you have the know how) - get right in there girl!

Your discovery about Emily is just amazing. Isn't that incredible and doesn't that kind of thing keep you going?

Relations of my husband's (Allisons Jean) in America, asked if I could trace their grgrandparents, Robert Dick and Ellison Laird. After much toing and froing I discovered that Ellison Laird was in fact their step-grgrandmother. Their real grgrandmother, Elizabeth Adams, had died young and her daughter, Margaret Dick, had, presumably, grown up believing that her step-mother was in fact her mother.

I got this little rosy glow, knowing that at last Elizabeth was going to be given the recognition she deserved.

Well - back to trying to suss Ancestry. I am thinking about your idea for a letter in a local Welsh paper, Mary. Sounds like a sound scheme, as long as they don't all want to come and visit me!

I like the idea of the Midnight Poster's party. I'm certainly up for it. Never been to an internet party before.

Bye for now

Lorna
Researching:

PAUL: Lanarkshire;
TORRANCE: Lanarkshire
CROSGROVE: Ayrshire, Glasgow
ALLISON: Glasgow
PRICE: Monmouthshire
CURZON: Staffs, Monmouthshire
TAIT, HUME, MIDDLEMAS,: Roxburghshire
PRINGLE: Glasgow, Central Belt, Edinburgh

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