U.S.-Canadian Border Crossing Records on Ancestry

Useful places to look up facts

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SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:05 am

Hi Anne,
Anne H wrote:Although his full name on the BC is Charles Scullion, I was expecting Charles’ middle name to be Adrain.
It's possible that he changed it, while maintaining the same middle initial. Maybe he didn't want his mother's name for some reason?
Anne H wrote:…and now I know that Charles was “short and stout” – can’t make out color of eyes and I’m not sure if it says his hair was originally black then bald!! This information is great!
:D I agree about the bald, originally black. Can't make out the eye color either. The original was not scanned at a very high resolution, unfortunately... and it's all a blot. His half-brother had grey eyes, but I don't think it's that. It's two words... maybe "dark brown"? But I could be convinced of other colors too. :?
Anne H wrote:If I don’t hear back from my contact on the DC’s that she has ordered by next week, I’ll go ahead and order them for Charles, Daniel, Mary and James and maybe get to the bottom of this…or at least some of it.
That would be great! Do post the information when you get it-- I'm quite curious about these people! I really don't see any other way of finding out Mary's maiden name, unless one could somehow unearth her marriage certificate-- but we don't even know which state to look in! It's very frustrating that the crucial time is just when the census was lost in the U.S. :(
All the best for your search! [cheers]
Sarah

Anne H
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Post by Anne H » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:51 am

Hi Sarah,

Sarah wrote:
Do post the information when you get it-- I'm quite curious about these people!
Absolutely Sarah :) I wouldn't dream of having it any other way, especially after all the time and effort that you put into the search.

I'm still completely baffled on this "son/stepson" thing with William Himes and his father John Lichliter with mother Harriot, then years later with mother Sarah/Mary...maybe one day an answer will surface :?

[cheers]

Regards,
Anne

Anne H
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Post by Anne H » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:50 am

Hi Sarah and all!

Thought I’d give you an update…I’m thrilled with my findings! Haven’t ordered the DC’s yet, :cry: but I have been a busy little bee looking through over 300 old newspapers in Montana and getting a good glimpse into the life of the Rev. Charles A. Scullon.

From the Internet, I found that he was one of the first Professors chosen to teach at Mount St. Charles College (now Carol College) in Helena. He taught Stenography and was the Director of Athletics. It looks like the college sports field might be named after him – St. Charles Scullon Field…not the St. Charles bit, of course :lol: just the Scullon part.

He went on to become Pastor of Sts. Cyril and Methodius Church. I have little snippets of when and where he went…like his stays in hospital, a couple of trips he made, some of the couples he married, (and their families…so if anyone has ancestors who were married in East Helena, I might have a notice of their wedding for you). :)

At his estate sale, a Steve J. Tomcheck bought Charles’ 1926 model Chevrolet Coach for $400, so looks like the poor man didn’t get much use of his car before he died. W.T. Glese bought Charles’ fur coat for $330…that must have been some fur coat, almost sold for as much as the car which was almost new! :o

I could go on and on…I have three-dozen notices on the Scullons, mainly on Charles, but alas, didn’t find the obituary or write-up about the funeral, which was what I was hoping for. :cry: I’ll contact the college and church at some point and maybe even the Historical Society…just on the off chance that they might have some other little snippets or an old photo of him…you never know! :roll:

I have to sort it all out and piece it all together, but it’s been great fun so far and the newspapers are terrific reading at times…everything from the news of the day to the advertisements, it's great…if our ancestors could see us now! :) Even though most of the clips I have are only a few words, they tell volumes!

I also found two Notices for Daniel Scullon on the Delinquent Tax List for Deer Lodge, Montana for December 1901 and January 1902, so if it’s my Daniel, it would appear that the family moved from Minnesota sometime after the two 1900 censuses were taken and ended up in Montana sometime before Dec 30, 1901.

I also found mention of a John J. Scullen and wife in a car accident and another for a dispute against the Trustee of the wife’s estate, and another for a John who had something to do with the railroad, so I’ll have to check to see if there is any connection…maybe I'll get lucky again and find that it's Daniel’s brother and his wife who also disappeared from Scotland around the same time…or maybe Daniel’s son John…time will tell.

…Now for the parental saga on William Himes. :?
How can he be both Harriet's and Mary's son???
I’ve had a few theories on this and they’ve all been shot down, but from the old newspaper clippings I finally found mention of Mary Scullon…the first is a Notice dated June 20, 1931 for the “Will of Ex-Service Man to be probated”. He died at the Veteran’s Hospital and Mrs. Mary Scullon, Mother of the deceased, and executrix of the Estate, filed the claim. The petition is a claim against the government under a war risk insurance policy where the Will bequeaths the entire estate to the mother who resides in Butte. :)

A second Notice is when the Judge approved the final accounting of the estate. The property consisted of accrued payments on an $8,000 War Risk Insurance Policy and the sole beneficiary was none other than Mary Scullon…. so, don’t know what happened to his wife and children yet, but William ended life as the son of Mary Scullon giving her his money! By the way, this time his name is spelt “Hines” with an ‘N’.

Looks like this might be his Death record from Ancestry:
William Hines, 40, born 1891
Male, died 27 Jan 1931
Index #LC809, Montana Office of Vital Statistics

Sorry for being so long winded but this is as exciting as the information I got from the Kirk Session Records for my other family. I could write a book and call it “The Saints and the Sinners”…but who’s to say who is who? Doesn’t matter ‘cause I love them all!

Regards,
Anne

Anne H
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Post by Anne H » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:56 am

Hi David,

I owe you an apology! I took over your thread and didn’t mean to do it…honest! I feel terrible, and I see you’ve had to start a new thread to continue…please accept my sincere apologies!

I’m glad you made the post though, for although I didn’t find my Scullion’s crossing over from Canada, just take a look at all that I did find…amazing! I’m thrilled to bits! :)

So again, I apologize, and also say a big “THANK YOU” to you and Sarah!

Regards,
Anne

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:03 am

Hi Anne,
Looks like you've been having fun! I have done a lot of transcribing of old newspapers and know how fascinating it is... sometimes hard not to read the whole thing :wink: You are certainly learning more about these people! Now if only one of Mary's sons would make an offhand comment about her maiden name...
All the best,
Sarah

Anne H
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Post by Anne H » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:25 am

Hi Sarah,
Now if only one of Mary's sons would make an offhand comment about her maiden name...
If only they would be so obliging...never mind, I will order the DC for William along with son James and the rest of those already found and hopefully we'll find out then...maybe :roll:

Regards,
Anne

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:56 am

Anne H wrote:Hi David,

I owe you an apology! I took over your thread and didn’t mean to do it…honest! I feel terrible, and I see you’ve had to start a new thread to continue…please accept my sincere apologies!

I’m glad you made the post though, for although I didn’t find my Scullion’s crossing over from Canada, just take a look at all that I did find…amazing! I’m thrilled to bits! :)

So again, I apologize, and also say a big “THANK YOU” to you and Sarah!

Regards,
Anne
Hi Anne H

But it's not my thread!, - it's TS members' thread, and I'm just happy that the online availability of this set of records has helped you!

Orraverybest

David

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:11 am

Hi Anne,
I popped down to the Minnesota Historical Society Library today and had a look for your Daniel. Some interesting developments...
First thing, I wanted to try to see what his family looked like in the 1895 Minnesota State Census. This is not indexed :? so I first went to the 1895 directory to see where he was living to get an idea of where he might be in the census. After scrolling through a number of neighborhoods, there he was!

1895 Minnesota, Ramsey County, St Paul, 6th ward, 7th precinct, p.3 (or 235 on the upper right)
191 Concord St
Scullon Daniel, 38, born in Ireland, 7 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Engineer, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, Mrs. Daniel, 29, born in Ireland. 7 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, Charles, 17, born in Scotland, 7 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, Agnes, 13, born in Scotland, 7 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, John, 12, born in Scotland, 7 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, Mary, 10, born in Scotland, 7 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, Margaret, 1 1/2, born in Minn, 1 year 1 mo resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth
Scullon, Gertrude, 6, born in Minn, 6 years resident in Minnesota, 6mos resident of current enumeration district, Father and mother of foreign birth

So, it looks like "Mrs. Daniel" (thanks, for giving your name :roll:) is way too young to be Sarah Murray. And there is a gap in the children's births that suggests the death of one spouse and remarriage to another. So... I asked if there was some sort of index for marriages that far back. Of course there isn't, except at the beginning of each volume on the microfilm. So, I started going through those, from 1891 on. I had decided already that Gertrude was either Mary's from her previous marriage, or Sarah's last child. On the seventh volume... there it was! \:D/

Book 13 p. 605
Daniel Scullion and Mrs. Mary Hines
19 June 1893

So, I went back to check the directories in 1892, to see if Mrs Mary Hines was in evidence. Of course, only the head of household is listed, so unless she was listed as a widow, there was no way of knowing it was her. As luck would have it, there were no less than THREE Mary Hines widows in St Paul in 1892 :shock: The directory was obliging enough to tell us when one of the Mr. Hines died, but he looks too old to be our Mary's husband.

Hines John died May 24, '92, age 50
Hines Mary (wid John), res. 381 E 6th
Hines Mary (wid Wm), bds 1138 Frances
Hines Mary C (wid Samuel W), clk Central Cloak Co, bds 669 Canada

The 1893 directory seemed to be missing, so I checked 1894. Every single Widow Mary Hines is gone! Hmmm. That doesn't help much, does it? Next time I went back to the cart I saw that 1893 had reappeared. Both Wid John and Wid Samuel W are listed, but not Wid Wm. No indication, of course, as to when the information for the 1893 directory was actually gathered. Wid Wm could be our Mary, but no guarantee. I'm inclined to believe that one also because of her son's name. This is where it would be so nice if the 1890 census hadn't been destroyed! Oh well. So, I went through and got all the directory information. Looks like he was delinquent in his Montana taxes because he was back in St Paul. At least the directory is kind enough to say when he left for Montana the first time.

1886-87 NOT THERE

1888
Scullion Daniel, lab, bds 439 John

1889
Scullion Daniel, fireman C St P & K C Ry, res. 36 Prospect ter.

1890
Scullon David (sic) eng, C St P & K C Ry, res. 48 Isabel

1891
Scullion Daniel, eng, C St P & K C Ry, res. 48 Starkey

1892
Scullion Daniel, eng. C St P & K C Ry, res. 376 Livingston Av

1893
Scullion Daniel, eng. C St P & K C Ry, res. 376 Livingston Av

1894
Scullion Daniel, eng. C St P & K C Ry, res. 425 1/2 S. Robert

1895
Scullon, Daniel, eng. res 191 Concord
Scullon, Charles A, comp. bds 191 Concord

1896
Scullon Daniel, eng. r 185 Lafond

1897
Scullon Daniel, moved to Anaconda, Mont.

1898 NOT THERE

1899 NOT THERE

1900
Scullon Daniel, eng. r. 616 Temperance

1901
Scullon Daniel, eng. r. 788 Fauquier

1902
Scullon Daniel, eng. r. 861 Beech

1903 NOT THERE

You'll note that like many people in cities at that time, he moved house nearly every year-- sometimes more than once!

I was going to print you out the census and the marriage cert. (you have to take them to a different machine) but as I was going over to get in line for the printer machines, I looked at my watch and realized I had to run if I was going to make my 3:15 appointment across town :shock: Got so wrapped up in Scullions I didn't notice the time :D So I will print you out copies next time I am down there. For the moment, you'll have to trust me on the transcription 8)

Have fun with this!
Sarah

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:59 am

Hi Again 8)
I just went out on a long tangent and thought I would just paste it in, in case you don't think I wrote enough today :wink:
Now that we know Agnes survived, what do you think of this 1900 record? Right month of birth, (and only a tiny fib about the year) very suspicious location... is it her?

1900
Anaconda, Deer Lodge County, Montana
507 William(?)
Murry, Angus J, head, born March 1873 in Scotland age 27, married for 10 months, helps carpenters
Murry, Agnus, wife, born Feb 1881 in Scotland, age 19, married for 10 months

They both claim the year of immigration as 1896-- but I wouldn't be surprised if that was his year and the same was put for her.

Here they are in 1910-- had to look for him, since she was indexed as "Annus" and I searched for Agn*

1910
Redrock township, Beaverhead County, Montana
Murray, Angus J, head, 36, married 10 years, born in Scotland, carpenter
----- Agnus, wife, 26, married 10 years, 1 child born-- 1 living,
----- John A, son, 9, born in Montana

I can't read the year of their immigration in this one...

Can't find them after this-- did they go back to Scotland? Note later: By the time he filled out his WWI Draft Registration he reports his nearest relative as "Effie Murray" but doesn't specify who she is... second wife? What happened to Agnes and John?
Another note: John seems to have died aged 12 :(


Montana Death Index, 1907-2002
Name: John Murry
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1901
Gender: Male
Death Date: 27 Apr 1913
Index Number: 70-246
Source: Montana Office of Vital Statistics


Backtracking, this looks like Angus in 1891 in Glasgow. I thought at first that he might be a relative of Sarah's, but I don't think so given the place of birth of the parents in the 1881. Or did her family come from Stornoway?

1891
455 St Vincent St, Anderston, Glasgow Barony, Lanarkshire
George Houston, 68, head, born Kilbirnie, Ayrshire, Night watchman
Mary Houston, 60, wife, born Barr, Ayrshire
Esther Donaldson, 20, visitor, born Glasgow, Domestic Servant (unemployed)
Robert Forrester, 50, boarder, born Stirling, Stirlingshire, Baker
John Cameron, 30, visitor, born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Seaman Mercht Service
Alexander S Murray, 22, born Glasgow, Beltmaker
Angus J Murray, 17, boarder, born Glasgow, Letter Carrier

And back further... They appear to be a Gaelic speaking family, although this information is indexed between the town and the county :roll: Wee John is certainly precocious to speak any language at all at 1 month old :lol:

1881
North Uist, Invernessshire
John Murray, 35, head, born Stornoway (G), Lewis, Talor
Catherine Murray, 33, wife, born North Uist (G), Invernessshire, Talor Wife
Angus John Murray, 8, son, born (G), Glasgow, Scholar
Donald Murray, 7, son, born (G), Glasgow, Scholar
Catherine Ann Murray, 5, daughter, born North Uist (G), Invernessshire
Maggie Murray, 4, daughter, born North Uist (G), Invernessshire
John Murray, 1m, son, born North Uist (G), Invernessshire
Catherine Murray, 60, mother, born Stornoway (G), Lewis, Crofter's Wife
Catherine McDonald, 16, servant, born North Uist (G), Invernessshire, Servant Domestic

Okay, I think I have snowed you with enough information tonight :roll: It's just that I don't feel like cleaning the house :lol:
Thanks for the diversion :D
Sarah

Anne H
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Post by Anne H » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:45 am

Hi Sarah,
I am absolutely speechless! A simple thank you just doesn’t seem adequate in this case, but I can’t think of anything else to say at the moment, so THANK YOU...THANK YOU...THANK YOU.

The time you have spent doing this research is so unbelievable and I am so grateful to you. I feel I should reimburse you for any expenses you incurred and would be more than happy to do so. Hopefully, you managed to get to your appointment on time!

I will be reading through all of this more thoroughly until it “sinks in”, but in the meantime…
1895 Minnesota State Census
I had no idea that a State Census was in existence…what great luck! Not only was I thrilled to see the entire family together, but was glad to see that Agnes and John had survived to make the trip to America, then when the time came for the 1900 Census they were both possibly married and/or living on their own.
So, it looks like "Mrs. Daniel" (thanks, for giving your name ) is way too young to be Sarah Murray.
I’m with you on that…there’s no doubting it now!
Book 13 p. 605
Daniel Scullion and Mrs. Mary Hines
19 June 1893
Ah! So Gertrude was born a year after the family arrived in Minnesota and she was Sarah’s last child, then poor Sarah died sometime within a four-year period, and Margaret and James were born to Daniel and Mary…. it’s so good to know the facts!
THREE Mary Hines widows in St Paul in 1892
Hines Mary (wid Wm), bds 1138 Frances
I’m sure it has to be Wm. I always feel so sad when children are left without a parent. Poor Mary wouldn’t have been married for very long, and baby William never knew his father. We’ll probably never know why William wasn’t with the rest of the family. Possibly John Lichliter and Harriet were William’s aunt and uncle.
Looks like he was delinquent in his Montana taxes because he was back in St Paul.
You mean…he flew the coop!!

Yes, the delinquent tax notices were in the Anaconda Standard and advertised on at least two occasions.

“Scullon, Daniel, Anaconda, Eastern addition, Lot 21, Block 21; west half Block 22, Lot 21 and the delinquent tax was for $18.75…hope he eventually paid the tax”!
1890
Scullon David (sic) eng, C St P & K C Ry, res. 48 Isabel
1891
Scullion Daniel, eng, C St P & K C Ry, res. 48 Starkey
They certainly did move around a lot. I had actually found one mention in the Directory on Ancestry last night for 1890, 1891 together but it only listed 48 Isabel…this is fantastic knowing exactly where they lived and when!

C St P & K C Ry … looks like this means the Clinton, St. Paul & Kansas City Railway. It took me a while to figure out what those initials meant until I remembered the Notice “Important Railway Deal” in the Anaconda Standard where the railway company were considering extending the lines…that was the article that mentions John Scullin and David R. Frayers of St. Louis “being the moving spirits” of the project. It’s possible that Daniel purchased some land hoping to sell it to the railway for a profit but failed to pay the tax.
1895
Scullon, Daniel, eng. res 191 Concord
Scullon, Charles A, comp. bds 191 Concord
What does comp. bds mean on Charles’ line?

I’m curious … I thought Daniel’s employment as a fireman/engineer meant that he was the person putting the coal on the fire to keep the train running, but would an employee with that kind of position advertise in a Directory using his companies name with his own home address?

Oh, Sarah! It’s almost 3:00 am and I’m about ready for falling asleep but I was so thrilled with all of this I just couldn’t let it go…. I feel like a kid whose just been given a load of presents. I cannot believe my good fortune and all this work you’ve done, and yes, I trust you on your transcriptions. This is all falling into place so quickly, it’s unbelievable!

The Passenger List that I found for Daniel arriving in Philadelphia 14 Nov. 1887 might just be him after all. I found one today for an Annie, Mary and Sarah Scallion arriving in New York on 16 July 1888, there are some discrepancies but it’s a possibility… or I might just be clutching at straws!

Annie is listed as 22 but it’s not that clear and could be 28 or 29….at least I’d like to be!
Mary 3, the only age that matches.
Sarah is 4 /12…Agnes would have been about 6 yrs. Just noticed that whatever the number is, it’s in the Month Column, so maybe I’m way off on this.

There’s always the possibility that Sarah and Annie’s names were unintentionally switched. Also, Daniel’s mother’s name was constantly changing from Ann to Agnes to Nan to Nancy, so Annie’s name doesn’t bother me, but where were Charles and younger brother John? … if this turns out to be Sarah and the girls, hopefully the boys came with another adult…and it would be awfully nice if I found them with Daniel’s brother John and family…then that might fit in with my “railway story” above. Nothing like wishful thinking... is there?

I also found the 1920 Census for Margaret with husband John McArdle and children. Oh no! It’s after 3:30 am…got to go to bed. THANKS AGAIN, SARAH!

Regards,
Anne