ANDERSON .....

[kiltie]

Is any one in N.Z.researching Andersons from Ayrshire,Lanarkshire or
Dumfriesshire.
Kiltie

[Kymbo]

Hi Kiltie

I have a Jane Anderson born abt 1807 marrying 'my' Samuel Elborn in 1834 @ Barony Lanarkshire in 1834. She was a daughter of James Anderson & Jane Jack.

I have a copy of the marriage to Samuel Elborn & a copy of Jane's death.

I am from Australia not New Zealand, but close enough hey

A line of my Elborn's did go to New Zealand ??

Kym

[William Mitchell]

Hi, Not sure if there is any connection here, but I have very recently found a brother of my great grandfather named Samuel Elborn(e) Kroon, son of my great great grandfather Johannes Carnoldus Kroon ( born Rotterdam, Holland) and his Scottish wife Euphemia Kay Clark, from Leslie in Fife. Most of this family settled in Dunedin NZ, but two of them, including Samuel Elborne Kroon in Queensland and Cornelius Franciscus Kroon in Victoria, settled in Australia. As I have traced various lines and never encountered any Elborns until now, I am wondering if the Elborn name comes from Euhemia Kay Clark's father's family, whom I have not yet been able to trace. Her father was William Clark,blacksmith, who married her mother Euphemia (+ variant spellings) Euphan, Euphens Donaldson in Leslie, Fifeshire. Regards, Pam Ayuby

[jaspergee]

Looking for ancestors of Jonathan Anderson b 1818-1820, in Scotland?? Jonathan d abt 1868
Married to Isabella Smith, not sure if married in Scotland?? or England, in the 1841 UK census he lived in Durham, Parish Jarrow, South Shields. Jonathan was a butcher.

They had twins Sarah Jane & Samuel Rawson b.30 July 1847 Sarah Jane d. 30 July 1894 in Christchurch NZ.
Sarah Jane married William John Gee 4 Jun 1865 in London Middlesex. They had 10 children 4 born in Canning Town Essex, & West Ham Essex, They immigrated to New Zealand in 1874 on the ship Northampton. They had another 6 children.

Going by my mothers information Jonathan was born in Scotland.

Pretty much hit the brick wall here as so many of us have sigh..........but in saying that there has been a lot of success as well Still very new at this, I go often to the Nat Lib of Victoria, Melb, Australia to do searches there for census information.

Thank you in advance for any info on the Jonathan Anderson
Jasper

[SarahND]

Hi Jasper and welcome to Talking Scot!
In 1841 Jonathan claims he was born in Durham. I don't see the family offhand in 1851, but in 1861 they are all reported as born in the county of Durham. One odd thing… Jonathan is 29 and Isabel 26 in the 1861 census, and their twins are 16 Somebody got the ages wrong!!!

All the best,
Sarah

[trish1]

Hi Jasper and welcome to Talking Scot

I was trying to find your folks in the census without alot of success so then went looking for Samuel and Sarah born 1847. I found the birth of Samuel on Freebdm but no record of Sarah Jane born at the same time/place. I then found details of the marriage between Sarah Jane and William John Gee in London and they are as follows

William Gee joiner 20 father George Gee joiner married Sarah Jane Anderson 18 father William Anderson, carpenter June 4 1865 at the parish church of St Botolph Aldgate Middlesex one witness was an Alfred Thomas Anderson (brother, uncle, no relation?)

I see in 1871
William Gee 24 head carpenter born Northampton
Sarah J wife 23 born Durham Nth Shields
William G A son 5 and Edward R son 2 born Canningtown

I can find on the census in 1851 Sarah Jane aged 4 born North Shields, father William which fits with a birth in Mar 1847 district Northampton
1851 Northumberland North Shields
William Anderson head 33 shipwright born kent Chatham
Jane Anderson wife 31 born North Shields
William T son 11
Hannah 8
Sarah J dau 4 Born No Shields
John F son 1

In 1861 I do find a Sarah Jane, Samuel Rawson both 16 living with Jonathan 29 (railway carriage examiner) and Isabella 26 - if these ages are correct, Jonathan & Isabel could not be the parents of Sarah and Samuel - but I cannot easily find them at another time. Do you have birth certificates for Samuel and Sarah? Are the census ages incorrect?

So I'm wondering as to whether Sarah belongs to the family of Jonathon and Isabella - or William and Jane

Trish

Edit: Hi Sarah - i was checking while you posted - we did find the same census

[jaspergee]

Hi Trish & Sarah,

Thank you so much for your quick reply, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your contact & help. Thank you Thank you
Working with my logic eeek! Sarah Jane's parents would be William & Jane Anderson, with the Gee line I do have they were all in building trade of some description & still are today (some anyway).
My reasoning also being Sarah & William’s 1st son was called William Alfred,
With your search on their marriage record being, one of the witnesses was Alfred Thomas Anderson, brother or uncle??
Most of the other children have names matching the Gee family side although my mother & grandfathers 2nd name is Anderson along with a cousin
With all the children there is no Jonathan or Isabella, in the names.

I had received a copy of the descendants of Sarah Jane Anderson from Tribal Pages at the beginning of the year. This was great to get for reference, on the Gee line; they got the Marriage Certificate of Sarah Jane & William it showed William Anderson as being the father. But the father & mother were Jonathan & Isobella on SJA's descendant's GEDCOM
I agree that your info seems to be the obvious record. Also I can't find Sarah & Samuel on the BMD btw 1844-1847 as being twins.
Which was other information I had been given.

You both may be able to fill in one bit that is really bugging me now, is the birth date, This Sarah Jane was born in the 1st quarter (Mar)I have a photo now of Sarah Jane's headstone (I went to Christchurch NZ in Feb this year & thought I would find what grave stones I could while I was there,& Photographed them) I found her grave & the date of birth was 30 July 1847 also said she died on her 47th birthday . This would put her birth in the 3rd Quarter???

Also I have to laugh Sarah with the 1861 census yes the dates don't match at all, but to top if off I can't find any reference as mentioned above about twins!!!!!

To fill you in on my quest, my mother had done much research on the family tree in the 80's & 90's through the LDS in NZ & additional info of which I had helped her with in Australia unfortunately, this got destroyed when she shifted house.
Mum is turning 80 in Oct & I would love to surprise her with a present of the family tree for her Birthday. I keep on ringing her to get clarification on stuff & then she has a moment & rings me with more info.
Mum is adamant that Sarah Jane's father came from Scotland, which now maybe William Anderson’s parents did. As Jonathan didn't.

If I can get some clarification from you I will order a birth certificate of Sarah Jane to get the correct birth date. (hopefully)

This has been a bit of a mind bender especially for a beginner, but the other side of the family is O’Donnell my great grandfather & McLroy great grandmother.
We know John O’Donnell is a descendant, from the Earls of Tyrconnell, Bridget McLroy as stated in the marriage certificate in NZ. Her father shifted to Ireland from Scotland & married an Irish woman. Mum is saying he came from Scotland as well. But there seems no reference to this name, but there are many variations Mac Elroy, Mc Ilroy etc. (mum & another relative that my posting through the Ancestry.com site are say she was Gilroy or Gilravy.) It’s really unfortunate that through past family issues b4 my time contact had been lost. So my quest goes on, I think to obsession, and frustration. I will post info on the Irish board on this site & see what happens.
Thank you again

Jasper

[trish1]

Hi Jasper

Do you have the NZ death certificate for Sarah Jane - from this website https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.go ... death.aspx the names of her parents should be on the certificate (if the informant knew the names). This may resolve the parent issue.

My initial thought would be that a researcher saw the 1861 census and assumed Jane and Samuel were twins (because of the same ages) and didn't take the matter further. The marriage certainly points to Sarah having a father William, but I do not know if it is the family I found in 1861 - and am not sure if a birth certificate would prove that you had found the correct Sarah.

I really have no idea re the birth date. Census ages never seem to be too exact - thus said the Sarah Jane I found in 1851 is 4 years old - if born in July 1847 she would only be 3, Sarah and Samuel in 1861 are listed as 16 - indicating births in 1844 or 1845 while in 1871 - the one we know is your Sarah is listed as 23 - indicating a birth in 1847 after census night - so July could be correct. Sarah gives her age as 18 when she married on June 4 1865 - which would fit with the 1851 census and a birth earlier in the year than July.

Summary
1851 (if the correct SJ) born before 30 March 1847 - age 4
1861 (if the correct SJ) born before 7 Apr 1845 - age 16
1871 born after 2 April 1847 - age 23
Marriage born before Jun 4 1847 - age 18

Given the tombstone, her family believed she was born 30 July. I can find no record on GRO (FreeBDM or the images) for this period but they are known to have many errors in their records. If her death certificate gives her parents as William and Jane it may be worth buying the Mar 1847 certificate, otherwise you may have to try the local registry office where Samuel was registered to see if they have a record for a Jane being born Jul 30 1847. Another possibility may be to purchase a birth or marriage certificate for Samuel which may help to prove/disprove a relationship with Sarah.

Trish

[jaspergee]

Hi Trish,

Thank you once again you are an I so very much appreciate you guidance, I didn't realize there was so much detailed information collected that far back in NZ on the BDM site, this will also help with my great great grandmother & father O'Donnell information as well. As there was very little on their marriage registration.
I have just got off the phone to my mother & read most of the postings from you and Sarah & myself (bit edited there ) about SJA. She was really happy & thanks you for your research Mum doesn't quiet understand the internet thing she thought I was talking to someone in Australia. I asked her about the Scottish connection she had assumed Sarah Jane's father had come from Scotland because of the Anderson name. My understanding at present that is 'Anderson' originated from Scotland
I think I'm going to be getting more history lessons soon. I have some info, reading more posts on TalkingScot & the internet will help. Just as well I now enjoy history.
Mum also told me my second name was going to be Anderson but instead it was Jane from my Grandmother on my my fathers side.
Once I get the NZ info of which I now have the registration No's, I will let you know, & hopefully this will help with others looking for info. Genealogy is really daunting, for the beginner, if it wasn't for the generosity from people like you & Sarah & the internet, I would probably have given up.
Kindest regards Jasper

[trish1]

Hi Jasper

Starting from what you know to be true is usually the best way to do your research & in this case you know that Sarah Jane died in 1894, so hopefully that death certificate will provide some answers. Information on birth and marriage can be more reliable than death certificates as the people giving the information are directly involved with events. Info on death certificates depends on an informant who may/may not have all the required details. In this case from the marriage certificate you know that Sarah's father was William - so fingers crossed that the death certificate says the same.

My Mum did most of her research at the LDS Family history centres and by talking to other family members. She wasn't too impressed when I started pointing out a few errors - but we eventually sorted out most of the truth while discarding a few family "stories".

Trish