Scot Graves in Hong Kong

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tishgibbons
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by tishgibbons » Sun May 20, 2012 5:06 pm

On a recent trip to Hong Kong I came across and photographed the graves of some Scottish born folk - on the off chance that they are someone's long losts, should I try to upload them here, and if so, how?

Tish
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney Forbes McDougall from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Banchory-Ternan, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

Alan SHARP
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: Waikato, New Zealand

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by Alan SHARP » Sun May 20, 2012 10:42 pm

Greetings Tish.

While AndrewP will advise of any limitations TS may wish to impose, and the how to, the newly introduced format gives you the option of posting to the TS Gallery. Click on the icon above. You will be prompted to create [name] a file and then just follow the prompts to load your photos in the gallery. If you are worried about the data size of very high resolution photos perhaps you can make down sized copies before posting, and make the originals available, one on one, by private communication when you get a request.

Otherwise if you already have the photos loaded on a photo holding web site like "photobucket" "flicker" etc a link can be created to your post on the TS forum. Either for viewing on the host site, or to open up on your TS thread.

Alan SHARP.

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by LesleyB » Mon May 21, 2012 6:25 pm

Hi Tish

Just a suggestion, but to save you time and effort, perhaps an idea may be to post a list of names, and then if anyone recognises one they could post on your thread on forum, or contact you by PM and you could either post the image in the gallery or arrange to send it to the person by email?

Best wishes
Lesley

tishgibbons
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by tishgibbons » Mon May 21, 2012 8:50 pm

Thanks Alan and Lesley!

I think I'll go with Lesley's suggestion - just in case dates of death would contravene TS rules as you pointed out Alan.

Thanks Folks

Tish
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney Forbes McDougall from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Banchory-Ternan, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

tishgibbons
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by tishgibbons » Mon May 21, 2012 9:23 pm

The following, born in Scotland, are mentioned on MIs in the Protestant Cemetery, Queens Road East, Hong Kong Island:-

James Liddell STEWART (Jock) born Glasgow 24th September 1892
William Murray STRATTON born Edinburgh 16th July 1882
Grace McLaren STRATTON born Edinburgh 7th June 1884 (died London 1949)
Thomas McCONACHIE TRAIN born Aberdeen (less than 100 years ago)
John (Bunny) HOSSACK born Glasgow (less than 100 years ago) husband of Frances
Margaret MCKAY, daughter of Mr. & Mrs. G.M. Dalgety, born Arderseir (less than 100 years ago) died in Hong Kong at 2 years of age (1923)

These other graves nearby don't mention Scotland as such but with names like these ...

George S MCKAY and his wife Agnes Florence MACTAGGART
Mary MACLEAN MACDONALD died 1930 aged 66
"Wee Sandy" aged 6 months, son of Cpl & Mrs. Rotheringham, died 1957
Donald DAVIDSON - gave his life for Hong Kong 1941 aged 31 husband of Jane
Colin George MACKENZIE (1890 - 1931) and his wife Harriet Margaret Mackenzie (1888 - 1935)
Ellen Hercus died 1932 wife of George MCLEOD
Robin Christopher FARRAR MACGREGOR

If you want a copy of these photographs (of mixed quality - I hadn't much time!!) just post here or send a PM.

Hope even one of them helps someone!

Tish
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney Forbes McDougall from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Banchory-Ternan, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

Alan SHARP
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: Waikato, New Zealand

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by Alan SHARP » Mon May 21, 2012 10:00 pm

Greetings again Tish.

Thanks for posting. It is not uncommon for a post, that has been idle for five years, to suddenly get new legs, when Google directs an enquiry this way. Hopefully you will not have to wait that long, and if you ever change your IP service provider PLEASE update your TS membership contact details, so that any Private Message from TalkingScot, will still reach you.

Alan SHARP.

Montrose Budie
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:37 pm

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by Montrose Budie » Tue May 22, 2012 2:54 pm

tishgibbons wrote:The following, born in Scotland, are mentioned on MIs in the Protestant Cemetery, Queens Road East, Hong Kong Island:-

James Liddell STEWART (Jock) born Glasgow 24th September 1892
William Murray STRATTON born Edinburgh 16th July 1882
Grace McLaren STRATTON born Edinburgh 7th June 1884 (died London 1949)
Thomas McCONACHIE TRAIN born Aberdeen (less than 100 years ago)
John (Bunny) HOSSACK born Glasgow (less than 100 years ago) husband of Frances
Margaret MCKAY, daughter of Mr. & Mrs. G.M. Dalgety, born Arderseir (less than 100 years ago) died in Hong Kong at 2 years of age (1923)

These other graves nearby don't mention Scotland as such but with names like these ...

George S MCKAY and his wife Agnes Florence MACTAGGART
Mary MACLEAN MACDONALD died 1930 aged 66
"Wee Sandy" aged 6 months, son of Cpl & Mrs. Rotheringham, died 1957
Donald DAVIDSON - gave his life for Hong Kong 1941 aged 31 husband of Jane
Colin George MACKENZIE (1890 - 1931) and his wife Harriet Margaret Mackenzie (1888 - 1935)
Ellen Hercus died 1932 wife of George MCLEOD
Robin Christopher FARRAR MACGREGOR

If you want a copy of these photographs (of mixed quality - I hadn't much time!!) just post here or send a PM.

Hope even one of them helps someone!

Tish
Note that there were particular procedures involved the situation where an army BMD, maybe also RN or RAF, record was involved.

Obviously, in HK, there could easily be a military link.

Each quarter, the army submitted details of all BMDs in its area involving army personnel and their families to GRO in London.

There was normally a specific annotation on the army record as to nationality, e.g. Scotch, English or Irish.

What happened with other nationalities I'm not sure, e.g. Gurkhas, Indians, Africans, Australasians, N Americans, etc., - now there's a neat wee research project for someone! - as regards UK armed forces overseas records.


In the case of records identified as Scotch or Irish, certified copies were then passed on to GROS in Edinburgh and GRO Dublin or GRONI Belfast, depending on the date.

I don't know if the forwarding of copies to Dublin continued after 1921 - an interesting question as any such annotation would require the annotation to be a wee bit more than just 'Irish'; add that query on to the above suggested research project, as very many Irish, as in The Republic, nationals served in the UK armed forces after 1921.

In Scotland, in Edinburgh, or on-line at ScotlandsPeople, these forces records are to be found under the 'Minor Records' heading.

I assume that there are equivalent Royal Navy and RAF records but I also assume that such records are a bit uncommon, certainly as regards the RAF, but maybe not so uncommon as regards the RN, in terms of 'accompanied status' on overseas postings, i.e. BMD service records overseas, where the family of the person serving in the navy or air force was also abroad.

Again, add this aspect to my quite faacinating suggested research project !


But just be aware that the army system didn't always perform at the 100% level, i.e. errors did occasionally creep in, both in the army reporting system to GRO London as regards nationality, as well as the records being then forwarded correctly to Edinburgh or Dublin/Belfast.



A few years ago I was able to assist a Scot who was under imminent threat of deportation back to Turkey after his family's arrival back at Aberdeen airport from holiday in Turkey.

His problem was that he held a Canadian passport, to which he was perfectly entitled, as that's where he was born after his Scottish family emigrated there.

The family returned to Scotland after a few years in Canada and this man had gone on to serve in the British Army and then in the Scottish police and fire services over several decades in the period since his family's return from Canada.

During his UK army service, when his regiment was posted abroad at quite short notice, he found that it was much, much simpler and faster to obtain a Canadian passport, as he was born in Canada; and, not least, since his Scottish father had been born in India when his father, this man's grandfather, was in the British Army.

After being allowed back into the UK at Aberdeen airport after several hours inquisition, and that on a purely conditional basis, - i.e. prove your right to live in the UK, or we'll send you back to Turkey !, - the further response from the relevant UK authorities when given the facts and queried as regards the situation was extremely helpful !, i.e. queried on the basis of his father's army service birth in India the response was, - "You'll need to contact the Indian authorities for your father's birth record" (in fact my memory is saying Nepal).

Given that he was under several weeks notice of being deported back to Turkey, this response wasn't exactly helpful.

With his details, a few minutes on ScotlandsPeople swiftly produced the relevant army records regarding his father's birth, as well as his death in India, under the GROS Minor Records classification, plus other records that showed that he was fully entitled to a UK passport, and the right of residence in the UK.

Fortunately, GROS in Edinburgh were extremely sympathetic to the situation, and produced the required extracts within 24 hrs of being asked, for no extra cost as regards the speed; not least since there was now a major problem for the family as the man concerned was now not allowed to take paid employment in the UK!, since he was classified as an 'illegal' immigrant, in the sense that, as a Canadian passport holder, he had no right of abode in the UK ..............


mb

Alan SHARP
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: Waikato, New Zealand

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by Alan SHARP » Tue May 22, 2012 9:11 pm

Thanks mb, very enlightening indeed. Alan SHARP.

tishgibbons
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Re: Scot Graves in Hong Kong

Post by tishgibbons » Tue May 22, 2012 9:47 pm

Yes, I deliberately kept away from the (numerous) army, navy and police graves in the same cemetery. These ones looked separate, thoughh of course I cannot tell if they were family,m etc.

Interesting info nonetheless

Tish
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney Forbes McDougall from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Banchory-Ternan, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

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