High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

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ChampagneMama
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High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by ChampagneMama » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:40 pm

HI Everyone!

My 2nd great grandparents marriage certificate says that they were married at the High Kirk Glasgow by Principal Duncan McFarlan in 1857. I'm a but confused because my great grandfather was a German musician who died in the poor house 40 years later. Although his best man was the conductor of the Glasgow Harmonic Society. Family folklore said he was asked to Scotland to play for the Duke of Hamilton. I never found any evidence of that although his wife was from Hamilton, Lanarkshire.

My questions are:

Isn't this church a wee bit fancy for poor or just average folk?
Also Principal Mcfarlan seems to be quite a famous Minister at the time, why is he performing the ceremony?
Or was there a smaller chapel within the church that he (Duncan McFarlan) would perform wedding ceremonies?

I can't find any record of my ancestor's career there. I was always understood he struggled and was a pauper at the end. So I'm confused with this possible fancy marriage ceremony.

I would appreciate any help or guidance. I live in Canada so it's not like I can go and research at the Mitchell Library :(

Currie
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Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by Currie » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:48 am

Hello ChampagneMama, and Welcome to TalkingScot.

There's an obituary for Rev. McFarlan in the Glasgow Herald, 27 November, 1857.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=z ... %2C5083702

A Cathedral is just a church and a church is for both the rich and the poor. Most marriages were carried out in peoples homes, and I guess the minister, whose duty it was to perform such ceremonies for his parishioners, could do so wherever he wished. The ceremony probably wasn't necessarily anything special.

In 1882-83 the Glasgow Herald published, in 14 parts, a history of the Glasgow Choral Union. The Choral Union was formed in 1855 by the amalgamation of the Glasgow Musical Association, instituted in 1843, and the Glasgow Harmonic Society, instituted in 1850.

Maybe it will be worth a read. The Google News Archive scans vary in quality from reasonable to unreadable. Better copies can be obtained from sites offering newspaper subscriptions. If there's anything in particular you need clarified please let me know.


Part 1 - 19 Jul 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=l ... %2C1297790

Part 2 - 28 Jul 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=n ... %2C2036838

Part 3 - 12 Aug 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=q ... %2C3100665

Part 4 - 14 Aug 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=q ... %2C3218921

Part 5 - 26 Aug 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=s ... %2C4014491

Part 6 - 02 Sep 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=t ... %2C4464464

Part 7 - 08 Sep 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=u ... %2C4851838

Part 8 - 16 Sep 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=w ... %2C5453754

Part 9 - 19 Sep 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=w ... %2C5631908

Part 10 - 09 Oct 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=v ... 3%2C575138

Part 11 - 11 Dec 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6 ... %2C5167760

Part 12 - 26 Dec 1882 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9 ... %2C6295957

Part 13 - 27 Jan 1883 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=e ... %2C1965468

Part 14 - 01 Feb 1883 Google News page not properly scanned.


What was the name of the conductor of the Harmonic Society on the record you have, and did you wish to disclose your ancestors name?

Hope that's interesting,
Alan

ChampagneMama
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:04 am

Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by ChampagneMama » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:24 am

Hi Alan, thanks for the response!

My ancestor's name is Henry Apel (Musician, born Saxe-Weimar, Germany). I think his name at birth was Heinrich Friedrich Augustus Apel.

His marriage certificate says it took place at High Kirk Glasgow by Duncan Macfarlan, Principal Glasgow College. April 13, 1857
His witness was John Harkin, who I believe was his conductor at some point.

Henry arrived in Scotland sometime between 1850 - 1856. My Father says Henry was a singer and my father's cousin says Henry played a brass instrument, I also heard he was in Edinburgh before he came to Glasgow. He also lived in Manchester in the 1880s.

Thanks for your interest I really appreciate it!

AndrewP
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Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by AndrewP » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:24 am

Hi ChampagneMama,

I can see him in Glasgow in the censuses of 1861, 1871 and 1891 on http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. No sign of him in 1881. In 1881, three daughters and a son are in one household in Glasgow, but not with their parents. In these searches, he is listed as Henry Apel. Both Henry and son Henry died in Glasgow before the 1901 census.

All the best,

AndrewP

WilmaM
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Location: Falkirk area

Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by WilmaM » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:33 am

Family search has a Henry Apel in 1881 boarding in Lancashire:
Name Henry Aple
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Chorlton Upon Medlock, Lancashire, England
Registration District Chorlton
Gender Male
Age 50
Marital Status (Original) Single
Occupation Professor Of Music
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Birth Year (Estimated) 1831
Birthplace Germany
Page Number 31
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 3917/116
Affiliate Record Type Household
Household
Role
Gender
Age
Birthplace
Charles Williams Head M 40 Bishopsfield, Gloucestershire, England
Ellen Williams Wife F 39 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Gerty Williams Daughter F 5 Eccles, Lancashire, England
Henry Aple Boarder M 50 Germany
Professor music seems to fit the bill.

ChampagneMama
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Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by ChampagneMama » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Thanks Wilma and Andrew!
I do already have his census information but I do thank you for your help. It's seems Henry went to Manchester and got married to a woman aboit 20 years younger than he. He did return to Glasgow without his new bride. I have a document from the poor house hospital saying that he became a Bill Collector in the 1890s and he had a throat tumor, no menton of the second wife at all. He died in 1897.

I'm interested in his career as a musician and what brought him to the UK. I can't find his name anywhere as a musician exempt for the census. The family insists he would asked to come to the UK by the Duke of Hamilton and since Henry's wife actually lived near Hamilton Palace just before they married, it seems like that was a possibility. I've asked the Hamilton family historian and there's no record of him but that doesn't mean he didn't play for him either.

Again, thanks for everyone for their help and interest!

nelmit
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Location: Scotland

Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by nelmit » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:40 pm

ChampagneMama wrote:Thanks Wilma and Andrew!
I do already have his census information but I do thank you for your help. It's seems Henry went to Manchester and got married to a woman aboit 20 years younger than he. He did return to Glasgow without his new bride. I have a document from the poor house hospital saying that he became a Bill Collector in the 1890s and he had a throat tumor, no menton of the second wife at all. He died in 1897.

I'm interested in his career as a musician and what brought him to the UK. I can't find his name anywhere as a musician exempt for the census. The family insists he would asked to come to the UK by the Duke of Hamilton and since Henry's wife actually lived near Hamilton Palace just before they married, it seems like that was a possibility. I've asked the Hamilton family historian and there's no record of him but that doesn't mean he didn't play for him either.

Again, thanks for everyone for their help and interest!
His marriage entry in 1881 to Eliza Shawcross states that he is a Musician.

Regards,
Annette

Falkyrn
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Location: Scotland

Re: High Kirk Marriage Glasgow Questions

Post by Falkyrn » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:37 pm

ChampagneMama wrote:HI Everyone!

My questions are:

Isn't this church a wee bit fancy for poor or just average folk?
Although the High Kirk (or Glasgow Cathedral) is now venerated in its own right this was not always the case. For a good number of years 3 different congregations used the Kirk building for their services and one lot when they moved out of what is now the crypt area filled it with earth and used it as a burial ground.

19th century "improvers" also had scant regard for the building tearing off towers and outbuildings and destroying many records of the City stored there, in the process.

There is one unusual aspect to this marriage - It was extremely rare for a Presbyterian marriage of that time to be conducted within the Church building with the more usual location being the manse (ministers house) or the brides home.
~RJ Paton~

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