1851 census lookup.....

[angel]

H Jack

I can get someone to look at the Kirk records for me it would be interesting to find out what they say about the birth. I also see see that in the 1871 census my 2 x great grandparents stayed with his brother. I wonder if my great grand mother was named after Mary Crawford that was a vistor and family cook I would like to think so. If i find anything I will let you know.

Heather

[Jack]

Hi Heather,
Just a pity the Neilston Kirk Session records have nothing on John TEMPLETON & Janet ANDERSON's relationship.
You'd have thought there might be as their daur was illegitimate.
I'm assuming there was nothing though....did someone manage to check them for you?

This Poor Relief record of Janet TEMPLETON's doesn't give any indication which Janet ANDERSON is her mother.
There are about 6 other Janet Andersons in Neilston 1841 that could've old enough to be her mother in 1848.
(ages in 1841 range from 7yrs to 39yrs)
Can't see that a search on all these other Janet Andersons in Neilston would help any.
(unless one could be found in America...)
And seems very unlikely that Janet Templeton had signed any Anderson family DCs giving her relationship to them.

There are a few unanswered questions, and they probably always will be.
Like why was wee Janet TEMPLETON listed as a Lodger in 1851?
Was it because she wasn't Agnes WHITELAW's gr-daur? Or that Agnes didn't want to admit the fact she was?
If not her gr-daur, then surely related to her hubby John ANDERSONs family.
(if that were the case then wee Janet wouldn't be actually related to Agnes, and lodger could be correct)
In 1861 the household head was James McHaffie - so wee Janet not directly related to him, and boarder would be right.

Janet Templeton's mother's identity was probably an open secret in Neilston.
Maybe she did know, but was told her mother was in America to stop any "awkward" questions.
The record below though uses the word "supposed". So she's unsure.
I feel that young Janet has been kept in the dark somewhat as regards her mother.

Wonder where Janet ANDERSON b.1833 was in 1861 & 1871? Elsewhere in Scotland? Or what...?
She is with her mother Agnes Anderson m/s Whitelaw in 1851, and Annette found her with sister Agnes (McHaffie) in 1881.
--
DC 1928. 644-12. 807. (Hillhead)
Janet ANDERSON (92), single, d. 18 AUG 1928, at 5 Great George St, Glasgow.
Parents - John ANDERSON, blacksmith (dcd) & Agnes WHITELAW (dcd)
Informant - Alexr? S????T, 21 Holyrood Crescent, Glasgow. [a rather unclear signature]
--
So i suppose the bottom line is that Janet ANDERSON b.1833 might be Janet TEMPLETON's mother.
Against this is the very young age of 13½ yrs she would've been when giving birth.
As said previously not impossible...but.
============================================
Govan Poor Relief Application. D-HEW 17/194. Page 47703.
Janet TEMPLETON or SWAN, 30yrs.
263 Eglinton Street. Low.
Applied - 11.15am 15 Jan 1878.
Born - Neilston. Protestant. Marrried - separate.
Occup - Washing & dressing.
Partially disabled - young child.
Children -
Mary 8, b. Crawford St, Eglinton St.
Amelia 6, b. ditto
Jessie 4, b. Eglinton Place.
Husband Andrew Calderwood SWAN, collar dresser - away from home.
Daur of John TEMPLETON, miner, dead & Janet ANDERSON in America.
--
Asst. Inspector's report. 1pm 16 Jan 1878.
Janet TEMPLETON or SWAN at 263 Eglinton St. Low, is aged 30yrs.
Born in Neilston, protestant, daur of,
John TEMPLETON, miner, dead & Janet ANDERSON supposed to be living in America.
Her husband Andrew Calderwood SWAN, linen dresser aged 31yrs born in High St, Glasgow.
Son of Robert SWAN who keeps an eatery house at 28 Bridgegate & Jane CALDERWOOD, dead.
Family -
Mary 8yrs 10mos, b. Crawford St, off Eglinton St.
Amelia 6yrs 7mos, b. ditto
Jessie 4yrs 5mos, b. Eglinton Place.
Residences -
Present - 263 Eglinton St, Govan - 6wks.
Prior - 17 Eglinton Place, Govan - 4yrs 9mos.
do - Crawford St, Govan - 4yrs.
do - Main St, Pollokshaws, Eastwood - 1yr.
do - So. Wellington St, Govan - 3mos.
do - Drygate, Glasgow - 1yr.
To marriage he 60 So. Wellington St, Govan - 9mos.
--
Married 31 Dec 1866 at 13 Annfield Place.
She is certified in good health & fit for work.
Rent - 11/- a month.
She is a washer & dresser. Earns about 10/- wkly when working.
Settlement - Govan Combination.
--
Medical Certificate.
Dr. Bavie? 107 Eglinton St.
15 Jan 1878.
Janet TEMPLETON or SWAN.
263 Eglinton St.
In good health.
Can work.
Destitute.
Require immediate attention.
--
15 Jan 1878; 2/6 wk. 13 Feb 2/6 p.wk. 3mos?
12 Feb 1879; 2/6 wkly. 1mo.
14 Mar 1879; Continue 2/6 a week 2 weeks then stop. Husband home.
11 Mar 1879 - Off Roll.
=================end
Jack
ps, the submitter(s) of the Anderson children's births, and Janet Templeton's marriage,
may be worth trying to contact on the off chance they know more about wee Janet's parents.
==

[angel]

Hello Jack

Thank You so much for all the info had a look at the 1880 census but no luck there and there were too many in the 1870 to be sure if one was her. As you say it may be worthwhile contacting the submitter.

On Janet Templetons marriage cert it looks as if the parents had married by the way it is recorded. John Templetons occupation on the cert is given as a Hand Loom Weaver.

Heather

[Jack]

Hi Heather,
Yes, a pity the name is Janet Anderson, and not something more unusual.
Just too many Andersons around - i've also got ancestors of the name, so i know!

Janet Templeton would be thinking her parents were married - no reason for her to doubt they weren't.
Suppose we have to remember she posssibly never saw her father,
and it's still not proven that Janet Anderson b.1833 was her mother.
If she was, then wee Janet probably wasn't aware of it.

Maybe she was told her father had died, and her mother decided to start a new life in America?
But in reality her mother was still in Scotland?
I still feel wee Janet wasn't told the full story about her parents...maybe just enough to satisfy any curiosity?

Maybe wee Janet had been told at one time her father was a HLW, but later that he was a miner.
Presume Janet's DC says HLW? If so, then probably copied from her MC.

If only those Kirk Session records had something they might've helped solve the parent problem.
I do hope you can contact the submitter.
Jack

[angel]

Hello Jack

I have checked the LDS site and there is no submitters name but there seems to be at least 3 people submitting and one of those is extracted entry's for all the children.

I was at Edinburgh earlier this year but the kirk records are still in a seperate building and I was told that I would have to pay to get in there too.

What I may have to do is see how much it would cost for them to do a lookup for meas I don't know when I will be back down again and I would love to know what is said in those records.

Janet Templeton/Swan death cert gives no occupation for her father and it was her husband Andrew who registerd the death.

Heather

[SarahND]

Can't see that a search on all these other Janet Andersons in Neilston would help any.
(unless one could be found in America...)

Wonder where Janet ANDERSON b.1833 was in 1861 & 1871? Elsewhere in Scotland? Or what...?

Okay, okay, Jack, I felt that prod Here are some possible Janet Andersons in the U.S. in 1860 & 1870, just to make sure we have covered all possiblilities!

1860 2nd ward, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan
Jenette Anderson, 25, a servant in a house full of bakers, born in Scotland

For 1870 there are two choices, but you might not like the first one, although it looks like she is a financial success:

1870 Nevada Township, Nevada County, California
Anderson, Jennie, 38, prostitute, born in Scotland, Value of real estate $2,000, Value of personal estate $250

1870 10th ward, Cincinnati, Hamilton County, Ohio
Anderson Jeannette 38, Washwoman, born in Scotland (no note of any real or personal estate... so the moral of the story is never mind... )

All the best,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Heather

I was at Edinburgh earlier this year but the kirk records are still in a seperate building and I was told that I would have to pay to get in there too.

Kirk Session Records are usually held at NAS, next door to NRH. Many of of them have been digitised, so you can view them on screen. The staff are knowledgeable and very helpful -they will point you in the right direction to find what you are looking for and will happily demonstrate how to use the viewing software. NAS is FREE!!!!!!!! (and jolly good value it is too! ) Well worth a visit next time you are in Edinburgh.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Jack]

Hi Sarah,
I would never think to you! Good of you to look though.
The Jenette 25 in 1861 could, at a pinch, be Janet, but there is another Janet aged 15 in 1851 Neilston.
(and of course we don't know whereabouts in Scotland for any of these "Janets" in the USA)
The two ladies in 1871 seem even less likely - but only because of their occupations.
Janet Anderson on these 3 later censuses below is quite consistent with her age & occupation.
All these taken in Neilston.
--
1851 - Janet ANDERSON, u/m,15, scholar, b Neilston, RFW
1881 - Janet ANDERSON, u/m 46, Governess unemployed, b Neilston, RFW
1891 - Janet ANDERSON, u/m 56, Daily governess, b Neilston, RFW
1901 - Janet ANDERSON, u/m 66, Governess, b Neilston, RFW
--
A look at the 1861 & 1871 at NRH or Park Circus might be worthwhile.
There's a fair chance the age window could be quite narrow.
--
I think i moral is quite clear; a washwoman isn't a good career move....
Jack

[angel]

Hello Everybody

I have just sent an E-mail to the general enquiries office at Nas giving the birth info that Jack found for me and asked if it would be possible that this was recored in the kirk seeion records and would it be possible for someone to look.

Jack if that is Janet in the 1891 and the 1901 census the she never went away and it just has been a story and she has never married either. A search on SP of Neilson and Renfrew in statuary deaths shows nothing so she must have move away to somewhere else to die.

Heather

[Jack]

Hi Heather,
Just caught your msg - i was nearly away to bed!
Please see my earlier reply with the PL application -
Janet ANDERSON aged 92 died in 1928 at Hillhead, Glasgow - still unmarried.
But we don't know for sure if this is the same Janet who was the mother of Janet TEMPLETON.
(if it is then she was only 13½ yrs old when she gave birth...that's one of the problems just now)
This is why i hope NAS has some good news!
Jack
ps, definitely Janet in 1891 & 1901 - she is still with sis Agnes McHaffie at Kirktonfield.
pps, i've not looked for Janet in 1861 or 1871 - possibly in Neilston? Maybe not.
If she can be found in Scotland in those years then it would be doubtful that she was ever in America.
(though she may have went there briefly between censuses - but that would seem unlikely)
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