Thomas Ross - Where did he come from, where did he go?.....

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:18 am

Hi Muriel

Way to go

!!! I love it!!!

Sally......<ahem>......Pssst.....you are one of the US experts

! Well done girl!!

Best wishes
Jean

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:12 pm

Aw you made me

Well if Agnes and hubby were there , then it certainly makes me hopeful that they are your Thomas and Isabella. Perhaps there were other members of the family there too ?
I wonder if a Massachusetts death record would give parents ?

Sally

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:33 pm

My GrGrGrandfather's death in Massachusetts in 1894 only states given names for his parents so no mother's MN. My GrGrandfather's DC in 1896 states full names of parents. So I think it was up to the talkative nature of the informant as to how much got pried out of them!

There is an index to MA deaths from 1841 - 1910 found here...but sadly it's only an index!

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/vitalrecords ... earch.aspx

Best wishes
Jean

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:38 pm

Sally - I've been wandering about all morning wondering about the death records and who else in the family might have been there - there's a number of the children I haven't traced who could have emigrated. Unfortunately, apart from Thomas the younger, they're all girls so probably aren't named Ross. I did have a quick look at the census for a Mary Henderson as my information is that Mary married a J. Henderson, but no luck. The fact that Thomas & Isabella were there in 1880 while Agnes & David May were still in Scotland indicates that they may have gone to family already there.

Haven't a clue who Lizzie Howith might be. She's not described as a relative, so perhaps a lodger because she's a Scot. I see she's described as married so then you start wonder where hubby is.

Off to find out more about Springfield!

Muriel

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:35 pm

Muriel,
Did Isabella Ross ( b 1834 ) marry a Walter Gay by any chance ? .
This marriage took place on 29th Dec 1854 - why couldn't they wait 3 days !

Children born to above couple:
WALTER GAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 11 NOV 1855 Bridgeton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

ISABELLA MCDOUGALL GAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 NOV 1857 Cathcart, Renfrew, Scotland

THOMAS ROSS GAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 11 MAY 1860 Cathcart, Renfrew, Scotland

FLORA GLEN GAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 APR 1862 Cathcart, Renfrew, Scotland

JEANIE GAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 JUL 1864 Cathcart, Renfrew, Scotland

CATHERINE GAY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 DEC 1866 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

I can't see a death for an Isabella Ross/Gay on Scotlandspeople

I did find on www.castlegarden.org =

First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Origin Ship
Flora Gay Child, Youngster 11 F 17 Jun 1874 Scotland Australia
Mrs. Gay Unknown 39 F 17 Jun 1874 Scotland Australia

Port Glasgow & Londonderry
Last Residence
Destination United States
Plan Unknown
Ship Australia
Passage Unknown

and then on the 1880 US Census Again:

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Race Age Birthplace Occupation Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace
Levi DANFORTH Self M Male W 46 NY Pistol Shop --- ---
Isabelle DANFORTH Wife M Female W 46 SCOT Keeping House SCOT SCOT
Flora G. DANFORTH Dau S Female W 19 SCOT Button Shop NY SCOT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Springfield, Hampden, Massachusetts
Family History Library Film 1254536
NA Film Number T9-0536
Page Number 282B

No Flora Danforth born in Scotland that I can see - so I'm guessing that Mr Danforth has adopted his wife's child ?

Perhaps this last bit is just coincindence . Wha Kens ?

Sally

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:27 pm

Sally, you've done it again

Isabella did indeed marry Walter Gay. Of the 6 children only Walter & Flora survived and the rest died very young - I see I've recorded the death dates but not the causes of death. I did them very early in my search when I was still learning

I took a deep breath & signed up for a pay-per-view with Ancestry to have a look at the census images. They don't say much more than the index but both the Danforths & Thomas & Isabella are in Ward 6 in Springfield so they lived close to each other (the census doesn't seem to give addresses). I've not been able to find a death anywhere for Walter Gay. He doesn't show up in SP or, as far as I can see in FreeBMD in England or Wales either - son Walter moved to London, so I wondered if he ended up there if his & Isabella's marriage broke down.

There is a death of a Thomas Ross in Massachusetts in 1880 & I've asked someone from RAOGK to look at it for me to see if its my Thomas. There doesn' seem to be any record for Isabella's death but more digging may yield something. I think the presence of Isabella & Flora in Springfield (I think it has to be them) makes it almost certain that Thomas & Isabella are the right couple.

Next move is to try to find the marriage of Isabella & Levi, I think. The census shows that he was born in New York but doesn't give any birthplace for his parents.

Thanks again - I'd been hitting my head against the proverbial

with this one for 10 years.

Muriel

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:42 pm

Hi Muriel
Walter Gay - he may be listed as Walter Guy. I have a family of Guys who turn up frequently listed as Gay, and on one occasion Gaye, so I'm sure it works the other way around too. Your Walter caused me to check, but the Walter Guy I have was born in 1848, Cardross, so can't be your chap.

Best wishes
Lesley

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:05 pm

Muriel wrote:

I took a deep breath & signed up for a pay-per-view with Ancestry to have a look at the census images. They don't say much more than the index but both the Danforths & Thomas & Isabella are in Ward 6 in Springfield so they lived close to each other (the census doesn't seem to give addresses). Muriel

Hi Muriel....not sure which US census year you were viewing but usually an address can be derived from the full page view in the first column. A street name is usually written in the length of the column vertical to the enumerated data. One of the next columns contains a house number but don't confuse this with the column that contains the number that the enumerated assigned as the order in which he visited the various addresses. If a page contains data from more than one street address then they will write in that street name in the same column and in the same vertical manner.

Hope this helps....hard to explain in words

but easy to understand once you see one

.

Best wishes
Jean

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:00 pm

Have you ever had the experience of a disembodied hand producing your credit card when you've just discovered a Walter GUY, right age, dying in Bonhill in 1873 on SP:?:

Well, there he was dying in October 1873 of congestion of the brain (2 weeks), engraver, aged 41 married to Isabella Ross, son of Walter Guy and Flora Glen. The informant was his father (not present) who seems to have lived in Jamestown. His lack of presence may account for the wrong spelling of the name.

Heaven knows where Isabella & Flora were at this time - the family were in Hutchesontown in 1871. I think Isabella/e must have gone to family already in the US for her to have gone so quickly after Walter's death - unless the marriage was over before he died.

I've also had another look at the Ellis Island records for Agnes's visits home & it's amazing what you see with a bit more knowledge. On her return from visiting Glasgow in 1813 she says that she's lived in the US since 1885 and that she is returning to stay with her sister Isabelle Danforth! Proof positive that that marriage is the right Isabella (notechange of name!). Agnes is on the 1910 census in Springfield with her son David when she is a widow and matron of a day nursery. David, who was an engraver when he accompanied his mother to Scotland in 1904, is now a chauffeur with a "private family". Isabelle & Levi are in Worthington Town, Hampshire County, both aged 76. No sign of Flora. So far I've found no sign of the death of David May, between 1904 & 1910, or of Isabelle or of Agnes. I do know that Agnes paid at least one more visit to Scotland because my mother, who was born in 1913, remembered meeting her. She doesn't seem to be in the 1920 census, so perhaps that's when she was here.

Thanks for the tip Lesley & I'll have a further look at the census Jean.

Muriel

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Hi Muriel

Walter GUY, right age, dying in Bonhill in 1873 on SP:

Was he yours? If so, we may have a connection yet (but it may be far back in the mists of Guy/Gay history) - my Guys are all Cardross, but Bonhill is not far away!!

Best wishes
Lesley