Baptiste, Charles Tobias - From Tobago to Glasgow

Steve Bannister · Post by **Steve Bannister** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:48 pm

Hi there,

I’ve got a couple of questions that I hope somebody can help me with. I have been researching my family history and my Great-Great-Grandfather was Charles Tobias Baptiste. Charles was the son of John Baptiste, whose occupation was a Cooper, and Grace Burke. I know that Charles was born in Tobago in 1851, but I don't know anything about his early life until he travelled to Scotland, working as a Ship's Cook for his passage. He then married Jemima Young in Glasgow, Scotland in 1879 and stayed there. Charles and Jemima had 9 children; Charles, Agnes Ann, Jemima Henrietta, Grace Mary, Isabella Algie, Cecelia Queen, Ethel Daisy, Susan Cecelia and my great-grandfather Alexander Hill Baptiste. Unfortunately, Alexander died when he was only 29, but luckily he had married and had two children Charles Tobias Baptiste (Jnr) and Jemima Young Baptiste (my Nan).

Charles Tobias Baptiste (Snr) was married on 8th October 1879 to Jemima Young, a Scottish woman, in the district of Govan Church, Lanarkshire, Scotland. Charles was 28 and Jemima was 19. It looks like it was a marriage at home as the ‘Where Born’ column lists the same address as the usual address’ of the bride and groom, indicating that they were living together before their marriage. Charles’ occupation on his marriage certificate lists him as a Steam Ship Cook. By 1891 he was a Restaurateur and an employer but something must have happened, because 10 years later he had gone from employer to employee, still as a cook. So does anybody know anything about Charles Tobias Baptiste from Tobago who settled in Glasgow and ran a restaurant?

Alexander Hill Baptiste was born on 5th October 1901, to Charles Tobias Baptiste and Jemima Young, and married Catherine Campbell Bradford on the 17th March 1903 and had 2 children, Jemima Young Baptiste (My Nan) and Charles Baptiste (“Uncle” Charlie). This Charles Baptiste was an actor who, apparently, started on BBC’s Children’s Hour (probably BBC Scotland). He was also in STV’s ‘High Living’ as Archie the tramp and then in ‘Garnock Way’ as the comedy character ‘Luigi‘, the Italian cafe owner, before becoming house manager at The Edinburgh Theatre. I have wrote to both the BBC and Scottish Television but have not had a reply. The BBC send an automated reply to say that my query is not important enough and there was no reply at all from Scottish Television. I would love to know more about him and I even offered to buy copies of the episodes that he was in. Charles died on 23rd January 1981 in The Royal Infirmary, Glasgow.

Alexander and Catherine’s other child was Jemima Young Baptiste (my Nan) born on 14th Oct 1923. She was also a bit of an entertainer in her day and was ‘Takia the Hula-Hula Girl’ at the Glasgow Empire. One day, she was spotted by Felix Mendelssohn, on a visit to the Glasgow Empire, and was picked to be part of his new band ‘Felix Mendelssohn and his Hawaiian Serenaders’ for a summer season at the Blackpool Opera House. Hawaiian music was quite popular at the time and he released a few albums. The Glasgow Empire has now gone and the Blackpool Opera House has not answered my emails asking about any archives or old programmes and posters. I have also found out that Jemima also put out a solo record as a demo. It was a version of 'Summertime' under the name of Jimmy Young. 'Jimmy', being her nickname (short for Jemima) and 'Young' being her Middle name. This was a few years before the other Jimmy Young!

Alexander and Catherine took Jemima to India when she was young. Alexander was a shipwright, so he was probably over in India working. Jemima’s brother, Charles, was left behind with three of his aunts, probably for his education. Does anybody know anything about Alexander Hill Baptiste, Charles Tobias Baptiste (Jnr), the actor, or Jemima Young Baptiste (stage name, Jimmy Young)?

Well, thanks for reading, and I would love to here from anybody who knows anything about any of these people.

Steve Bannister

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:33 pm

A Warm Welcome to TS Steven,

I did a quick 'google' and found your Uncle Charlie's name in the Glasgow Uni. collections
http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/sta/search ... ?EID=13800
clicking on his name then 'events' brought up a long list of performances he'd acted in. Dunbarton Theatre also featured his name.
Perhaps the Citizen's Theatre may have archives too?

The Mitchel Library in Glasgow might also be worth looking at for further information on the Baptiste family.

A very interesting family you have there.

I wuldn't be too quick in assuming that

column lists the same address as the usual address’ of the bride and groom, indicating that they were living together before their marriage

as Govan as a whole was mainly tenement buildings, and there would be a dozen or more house in each close bearing the same number.
Marriages usually took place in the Bride's home, as did births and deaths.

If you have thier address[es] for 1913/14 you could search the valuation rolls at http://www.theglasgowstory.com.
That same site features Theatre posters too, you may find something of interest.

Steve Bannister · Post by **Steve Bannister** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:55 pm

Wow, an excellent reply. Thanks very much for your help and your time.

I'll go and take a look now and see what I can find. I did try the mitchell library, but I couldn't find too much online. Being in Australia now, makes it hard with all this long distance research!

Anyway thanks again, I can't wait to see what's on that website.

Steve

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:23 pm

WilmaM wrote:A Warm Welcome to TS Steven,

I did a quick 'google' and found your Uncle Charlie's name in the Glasgow Uni. collections
http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/sta/search ... ?EID=13800
clicking on his name then 'events' brought up a long list of performances he'd acted in. Dunbarton Theatre also featured his name.
Perhaps the Citizen's Theatre may have archives too?

The Mitchel Library in Glasgow might also be worth looking at for further information on the Baptiste family.

A very interesting family you have there.

I wuldn't be too quick in assuming that
column lists the same address as the usual address’ of the bride and groom, indicating that they were living together before their marriage
as Govan as a whole was mainly tenement buildings, and there would be a dozen or more house in each close bearing the same number.
Marriages usually took place in the Bride's home, as did births and deaths.

If you have thier address[es] for 1913/14 you could search the valuation rolls at http://www.theglasgowstory.com.
That same site features Theatre posters too, you may find something of interest.

Great story Steve and excellent find Wilma - I hope you noticed they also hold a photograph of Charles.

Regards,
Annette

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:29 am

Hello Steve,

There’s an item in the Glasgow Herald, Thursday, October 26, 1893 concerning a business for sale that may be yours.

Businesses Wanted or For Sale
WORKING-MEN’S DINING-ROOMS, near Shipyards. Easy Ingoing.—Apply Baptiste, Canal Street, Renfrew.

If you want the image please send me a PM with an email address and I’ll send it. Alternatively you could access the newspaper yourself, and much more, online, by applying for a readers ticket from the National Library of Australia. http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12439

All the best,
Alan

Steve Bannister · Post by **Steve Bannister** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:45 am

Thanks Alan,

I had no idea there were so many databases available from the UK in Australia. I have been doing some research at my local library as they have a subscription to ancestry.com that anyone with a library card can use for free. But they never told me about this site. I have applied for a library card for the National Library of Australia, but they say that it can take up to 2 weeks. I have sent you a PM with my email address if you could send me a copy of the image.

Many thanks for your help,

Steve.

blueladybird · Post by **blueladybird** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:39 pm

Hi Steve, if you go to the fliker.com website there is a picture of charlie baptiste there, it says he never married and lived in renfrew with his aunt queenie till his death, sorry I am not good at putting the link in for you.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:38 pm

Is this the one you meant, blueladybird?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/smccallum3958/2397028412/

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:43 pm

That's really Interesting blueladybird;

Charlie lived across the road from me in Lobnitz Avenue with his Aunt Queenie.
Charlie had served with the RAF and flown Mosquito Pathfinders over Germany. Despite that, he told me that he had been racially abused on various occasions. He had been refused entry to The Albert ballroom in Glasgow when home on leave in early 1945, solely because he was black, and even though he was in RAF uniform. Disgraceful.
He worked in amateur dramatics, he wrote scripts, and had a small role as a villain in STV's 'High Living'. He never married and died suddenly in the early 1980s at a time when Renfrew didn't have many black people. When Charlie died, I was given his small portable typewriter and thus learned my keyboard skills. This is the result!
The back of the photo has written "Charles Baptiste RAF Halton 1946"
There are two stripes on his sleeve. Can anyone say what rank that would be?

I see Lesley has beaten me to the link.

Post by **joette** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:13 pm

I'm really shocked at the racial abuse he received.I always thought at that time that those of a different hue would be welcomed with open arms such as the Black GI's were.
He looks more Italian than Black though.His father was probably a melting pot of races coming from Trinidad-have you managed to trace him to there?