MILNE Family - Parish of Cargill, Perthshire

[dimac]

Need help with this please.
I have a Marjery MILNE b:c1806 in Cargill Perthshire and am trying to find her parents & siblings.
Also Marjery who married John MacLauchlan in 1824 Coupar Angus, became ill and she, her husband & three of their children returned to Cargill as they are in the 1841 census living in the boothy of a Nathan Taylor..(spelling MacLamblam or similar) it appears she died before 1851 census. as John is then a widower in another area. She is not buried in Cargill cemetery to the best of my knowledge....would anyone know where else in that area she may have been buried please?

Thankyou for any help on above,
DiMac

[SarahND]

Hello DiMac,
I have been looking for this family and found the two censuses you mention. I also searched the 1851 census for anyone named Milne who was born in Cargill and came up with zero (just trying to find siblings). Just wondering what documents you have that would indicate her birth year and place, since the 1841 census just has her as age 30, born Perthshire. Did her marriage record give that information?

All the best,
Sarah

[dimac]

Thank you for your lookups Sarah.

You are correct it was their wedding banns it says Marjery was from the Parish of Cargill. Sometimes when their children were christened in Perth her name is stated as being May Mill, as well as Milne.

Another member of Rootschat found the family in 1841 census in Boothy of Nathan. Is interesting to know you only found her in 1841 census..does it have much else about her then please?
C1806 as her birth date has not been proven...at one stage I believed she was born 1799.

Please ask away if you need anymore details...have their children etc.
Would love to find out more about her if possible.

Your help is very much appreciated,
Thank you,
Di

[SarahND]

Hi DiMac,
Both the mother and the daughter are May in the census transcriptions I saw. Note that these are from Ancestry and may be garbled:

1841
Boothy of Nathen Bulter Yask, Cargill, Perthshire
John Mc Lamblan, 35, born Perthshire, Ag Lab
May Mc Lamblan, 30, born Perthshire
May Mc Lamblan, 5, born Perthshire
William Mc Lamblan, 4, born Perthshire
James Mc Lamblan, 2, born Perthshire

1851
Evelick, Kilspindie, Perthshire
John McLachlane, 48, Head, born Dunkeld, Perthshire, Farm Labourer
May McLachlane, 18, Daughter, born Perth, Perthshire
James McLachlane, 12, Son, born St Martins, Perthshire, Scholar

If you want to see the originals, you can download them for a fee from ScotlandsPeople.co.uk

Be aware that she may have been "of the parish" of Cargill at her marriage, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was born there.

All the best,
Sarah

[dimac]

Thank you very much for giving all the above details - wonderful.
If I go to the archives in Edinburgh 2010, do you know if I can also get them
there. The day I went in 2008 from Perth they were on strike.

Had always thought she was born Cargill & that is why when May snr. become ill they went back to Cargill where her family lived to help care for them while her husband John b: 1801 was able to keep earning an income for his family. Searched Cargill Cemetery for their names also but no sign.

You don't know if there were a Mill family living in Cargill around 1824 do you?

Thank you for your prompt informative reply,
regards,
Di NZ

[AndrewP]

Boothy of Nathen Bulter Yask, Cargill, Perthshire

It should be something to do with Nether Buttergask, which can be seen on current maps as West Buttergask. I suspect it will be Bothy of Nether Buttergask.

On the 1890s map with coloured parishes http://www.nls.uk/maps/os/2nd_ed_list.html and select sheet 48 - Perth. Cargill is the orange colured parish just above the centre of the map. Click on the south-east section of the parish until the place names become legible. You should find Nether Buttergask there.

Or current map showing West Buttergask.

All the best,

AndrewP

[SarahND]

Thanks, Andrew! I knew Nathen Bulter Yask couldn't be right!

Hello Di,
Yes, you can also view the censuses in Edinburgh, so if you are going there anyway, might as well do it all at once!

In 1841, searching for families in Cargill with the surname of Mil*, there are quite a few Millers, of course, and a number of Milles and Mills. No Mill without the 's' and no Milne. But this, again, is the Ancestry transcription and may well have mistakes. Unfortunately, this is one area that has not been transcribed on FreeCen yet.
The only one old enough to be her sibling possibly, is James Milles, a shoemaker age 45 living with his family:

1841
Brondside, Cargill, Perthshire
James Milles, 45, born Perthshire, Shoemaker
Margaret Milles, 35
James Milles, 15
George Milles, 14
Barbara Milles, 8
Giles Milles, 6
William Milles, 2

Otherwise there is an Ag Lab living at the Boothy of Woodhead named Alexander Mills, age 18, born Perthshire; and a servant living with the MacKie household in Batahouise (?), Cargill named Susan Mills, age 10, born Perthshire.

Woodhead is on the western side of the parish

As far as 1824 goes... since there is no existing census from that time, I can only look to see if there are any OPR birth, marriage or death records around that time. Unfortunately, I don't find any Mill or Milne people being born, married or buried between 1820-1830 (checked back to 1790 for the births). Of course, they could have belonged to another church than the church of Scotland.

And of course... she could have been staying with her mother's family

Had always thought she was born Cargill & that is why when May snr. become ill they went back to Cargill where her family lived to help care for them while her husband John b: 1801 was able to keep earning an income for his family.

Where did you find the information about her being ill and them moving back in consequence? Perhaps there is another clue there.

All the best,
Sarah

[dimac]

Andrew,

Many thanks for giving me the good links to the area, which will be a great help and also pointing out West Buttergask which I didn't even know about.
Very greatly appreciated.

regards,
Di

[dimac]

Thank you again Sarah for all your lookups for me re: Milne/Mills families in Cargill.

It was purely supposition on my part, that because they were in Cargill in the 1841 census, it was because Marjery became ill. Sometime between 1841 & before 1851 census she died as John McLauchlan is in Killspindie as Head, Widower, with some of his children.

In 1855 John & all his children except Marjorie jnr who had married Peter Galletly, Perthshire, with husbands & children sailed to New Zealand on the "Cornubia" Marjory & Peter arrived in NZ a little later.

My thoughts are now, did the family return to Killspindie before 1850 & did May ( John's wife) die & was buried there.

To have their name spelt McLamblan gives some insight into their pronunciation of their surname or the record takers interpretation of same.
In later census it is McLachlane (1851).

In some family records it is Mill/Milne.....Mills is quite possible also do you think. If so, Mills sounds like Milles or is Milles pronounced differently
from Mills in Perthshire do you know please?

May & John snrs children were: John; Ann; Marjory, William & James. If that helps in anyway.
John McL. snr being an ag. lab. moved around Perthshire finding work.
At one stage they lived on Moncrieffe Island Perth, which is now a golf course I believe, & Hillyland, Perth.

Not knowing John McL. b: 1801 parents or siblings (except perhaps Robert) makes it harder to sort out which of their childrens name came from Mill/Milne side of family..except perhaps Marjery herself.

Have you any thoughts on the above please..would be most grateful.
Feel dreadful asking you as you have done so much for me already.

warm regards,
Di

[SarahND]

My thoughts are now, did the family return to Killspindie before 1850 & did May ( John's wife) die & was buried there.

That's certainly possible. It's also possible it was somewhere else, as the family did seem to move around a good bit.

In some family records it is Mill/Milne.....Mills is quite possible also do you think. If so, Mills sounds like Milles or is Milles pronounced differently
from Mills in Perthshire do you know please?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Perthshire speech-- anybody else have an answer?

I'm afraid I have no brilliant answers at this point. It is hard to find people accurately before the 1841 census. Will certainly let you know if I find something... You might just have to scroll through the OPR death records when you go to Edinburgh to see if there is someone who looks like her in any of the possible parishes. No telling how the name might have been garbled (assuming a record exists).

Best of luck!

Sarah