John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

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Showtunegirl
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John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

Post by Showtunegirl » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:57 am

Hello
I have a brick wall of sorts that I am hoping someone could assist me with. On a 1860 birth record for Margaret Eliza Ann Martin it states that she was born in Dundee on the 2nd of Oct 1860 to Margret Martin. It was an illegitimate birth. On the 12th of Aug 1862, Daniel Stewart (my paternal g-grandfather) was born in Montrose to John Stewart and Margaret Martin. On this record it indicates that Margaret and John were married on the 30th of April 1860 but I can not find a record of this Union. John Stewart is listed as a merchant seaman. Margaret Martin goes on to marry John Whyte in 1864. Now there a lot of issues here. I know that having a child without being married in the 1860's was likely scandalous, never mind two, I think Margaret Martin went to Montrose to have her second child to reduce this scandal. Also when Margaret gets married, she does not use her 'married' name Stewart, but rather Martin is indicated on the document. Had she actually been married to John Stewart it would stand to reason that she would have used Stewart. I suspect she gave a false marriage date to reduce said scandal further. On censuses to follow both Daniel (who went through life as Donald as if this wasn't already confusing enough) and Margaret Eliza Ann are both listed with the Stewart surname and find themselves living with John and Margaret Whyte and heir half siblings.
My question is regarding John Stewart. It is possible that he is the father of both children but not known. He was a merchant seaman, but I know nothing else about him aside from the fact that he was in Dundee roughly nine months prior to 12 Aug 1862. I have tried to find marriage records for John and Margaret as previously stated with no luck. I simply have no idea where to find out who this man was as he is the reason I have this surname. Reasonably speaking, how many John Stewart's could there possibly be in Dundee who were seamen (she said with tongue firmly planted in cheek). I am wondering if I were to hire a genealogist from Scotland if they would be able to find any further information. Thank you for your time
Jaimie aka showtunegirl

SarahND
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Re: John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

Post by SarahND » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:37 am

Hello Jaimie and [TS_welcome]

I hope someone will be along soon with an idea of what further records you might find in Dundee.

My first thought is that, if you have a brother, father, uncle or male cousin in a direct line from Daniel/Donald Stewart, then a Y-DNA test would at least tell you if the surname Stewart is correct. It won't prove that John was the man, but it would certainly be compelling evidence. If most of the Y-DNA matches have a different surname... then you will be off and running in a new direction :lol:

Best wishes,
Sarah

nelmit
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Re: John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

Post by nelmit » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:46 am

Hello Jaimie,

Nothing positive to add yet but going back to the marriage entry for Margaret and John Whyte......in Scotland a woman always gives her maiden name. The important bit would be whether she calls herself a spinster or widow.

Regards,
Annette

Ann In the UK
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Re: John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

Post by Ann In the UK » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:47 am

You could check the poor relief records, see if Margaret ever claimed. In my experience the father of the children tends to be named whether they married or not. Or else, if she was an unmarried mother, possibly the Kirk sessions - where she'd've been admonished by the church elders for her behaviour http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/g ... rds-online

JustJean
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Re: John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

Post by JustJean » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:15 pm

Hi Jaimie

I may have cracked your wall but not sure it is all 100 percent accurate yet. I looked for Margaret and kids in the 1861, 1871, and 1881 census records to see where they were what they were calling themselves and who they were living with. I have viewed the birth records of Margaret in 1860 and Donald (Daniel) in 1862 and also the marriage of Margaret and John Whyte in 1864. I found as you described the whole family in 1881 and these two kids going by STEWART in the WHITE household as lodgers. I found though in 1871 in the John WHITE household that Donald is named as a WHITE and big sister Margaret was not listed at all. At this point I assumed Margaret might have been working in service so I have eliminated possibles down to a very interesting household in Montrose headed by Sarah STEWART aged 33 a seaman's wife. There is a Margaret STEWART aged 12 as a stepdaughter and also a Sarah STEWART age 11 dau and Mary STEWART aged 10 mon dau along with a sister Mary GONTE (according to Ancestry) aged 23. I looked at the birth of wee Mary Stewart and learned her father was a John STEWART in the merchant service who had also signed the BC in person. I looked for a marriage for John and Sarah here is the indexing of it as found on Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
1864 STEWART JOHN GOUK SARAH MONTROSE /ANGUS 312/00 0017

It looks to me like this very well could be your missing John STEWART ancestor. It is possible John and Margaret were once married and divorced. Not all marriages were recorded in the statutory records in Scotland if they were irregular. Although if they did consider themselves married under the law then they would have had to divorce to legally marry again. I'm not an expert on the legal ramifications of all that but I do think this John is a very strong contender to be your ancestor.

I'll let you take it from here and study all the details and let us know what you think!!

Best wishes
Jean

SarahND
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Re: John Stewart merchant seaman in the 1860's in Dundee

Post by SarahND » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:23 am

Nice work, Jean! =D>

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