thomas lyon.....

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:00 pm

john1022 wrote: I wonder
where you got the info regarding the 1838 date of births?.

hi John
On checking my records maybe I was little hasty with the Agneses - both are not proven in my tree. One came from another Lyon researcher and I've so far not proved either of them one way or another...no sign of her in Andrew and Mary's family in 1841, though she may of course be the one with grandfather Thomas! If indeed she belongs here, she'd have been born between Arch & Allan:

1841 LYON ANDREW M 50 LOUDOUN /AYR 603/00 005/00 003
Loudon, Hall? (could be Hill?)
Andrew Lyon 50 Ag lab
Mary Do. 45
John Do. 7
Archibald Do. 5
Allan Do. 1
all born in county.

A bit of digging needed, I think!!

Oh boy, the 41 is being so kind to me $\:D/$ - on the SAME page are my Parkers, inc. 4x gr. grandparents Allan & Agnes!!

Riding (Ridding Farm?)
Allan Parker 60 Farmer
Agnes Do. 60
Elizabeth Do. 5
Ann Do. 3
Agnes Do. 1
Ann Howie 30 FS
Thomas Lyon 12 M.S.
James Lyon 9 M.S. (Mary Parker-Lyons sons?)
- all born in county

Just found this too - an odd entry!
ANNE PARKER
Female
Birth: 04 MAY 1836 Maybole, Ayr, Scotland
Parents:
Father: PRIMROSE_ PARKER

Mother: BURTON_ MCDONALD

Extracted C116054 1820 - 1854

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:27 pm

Hi John
Oh dear, I need to be more organised!

It was there all along, I did think I'd have had a question mark against it if was dubious, but its good to verify:
1851 census
Loudon, Alton
James Lyon 35
Jean 30
Agnes 12
Thos. 4
John 2
Mary 11 months...
and yes, I also have James Lyon married Jean Brown 18 July 1846 at Loudon....

Given that the 2yr old Agnes is at grandfather Thomas's house in 1841 and James is also there, I'd be inclined to think that Agnes is James' daughter.

Best wishes
Lesley

john1022 · Post by **john1022** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:18 pm

Hello again,
I have printed off your replies,so can digest at leisure,
glad to see we seem to have sorted Agnes's place in the family!.
Many thanks for your continuing interest.
Keep on searching
John

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:02 pm

John
An Andrew Hepburn (dairyman) of 27 Dunbarton Road, Glasgow was present at the marriage of Allan Lyon, son of Andrew Lyon and Jean Parker to Isabella Dunlop (dau of William Dunlop & Mary Aiton?) at West George Street Glasgow on 26th May 1863.

If he is who I think he is (occupation looks right & it agrees with 1881 census, below) then Andrew Hepburn was 1st cousin to Andrew Lyon.

Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203686 GRO Ref Volume 646-1 EnumDist 27 Page 6
Andrew HEPBURN M 48 M Loudon, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dairyman Master Employing 2 Woman & 1 Boy
etc.

best wishes
Lesley

john1022 · Post by **john1022** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:01 am

Good morning Lesley,
I have Andrew as born 24 OCT 1831-(Brother Thomas 07Sep1833).
If Andrew was 48 as shown on 1881c, he would have been born 1833.
Guess this is an example of treating census returns with caution!

with thanks John

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:55 pm

Hi John
HA!
The plot thickens - and we just about missed it too....

Remember wee Agnes in the 1841 with her grandfather Thomas Lyon and her father James - remember the rather odd gap between Agnes' birth and their marriage? Well, this may be an explanation, though there are few ends not quite tying up to my satisfaction.

Agnes seems to be James' daughter, but it looks like she may NOT be the daughter of Jean Brown! It looks like our James may have had a wee fling with a Helen Lindsey, domestic servant and the result was wee Agnes.

I was digging about trying to match up marriages and then possible deaths for Agnes Lyon b. 1804 as I know nothing about her. One of the marriages on IGI was:
AGNES LYON
Event(s):
Marriages: Spouse: JAMES FLEMING
Marriage: 06 JUN 1846 Loudoun, Ayr, Scotland
M116035 1820 - 1854

- so, I went to check for the death of an Agnes Lyon-Fleming and there was one - but she died aged only 43 in 1884 in Kilmarnock, so waaaay too young to be the 1804 Agnes, but I couldn't resist having a wee peek anyway - it wouldn't be the first time an age has been transcribed wrongly..... And there was Agnes Fleming, (illegitimate) m.s. Lyon. Father was James Lyon, carter (our James is a retired carter in the 1891) and Helen Lindsay, domestic servant. Funny thing is, the date of the above marriage seems much too early for Agnes born 1838 and the Fleming this Agnes is married to is a William Fleming, Joiner, ...?

Someone else has clearly some to a similar conclusion as there is a submission on IGI:

Agnes Young Lyon Female
Event(s): Birth: 1841 Kilmaurs, Ayr, Scotland
Parents: Father: James Lyon Mother: Helen Lindsay Melvin
- not sure where that Melvin fits in at this point, but the "Young" as a middle name would suggest a fit with our family, James' mother being Agnes Young.

But that also raises a question - if they think she was born 1841, she could not have been 2 in the 1841... it just says "2". Did someone miss out "months" maybe??

But there are a few more answers (not quite water-tight, but getting there!) in the Lyon/Fleming marriage entry in 1871 from GROS:

28 April 1871 at Shaw Toll, Kilmaurs
William Fleming aged 27 a joiner
Agnes Young Lyon aged 30 a domestic servant
both Kilmarnock
(so this is likely to be where the IGI submitter took their info from, but I think Agnes' age here is not accurate, partly because her husband is several years younger....)
Her parents given as James Lyon, carter (pottery works) & Helen Lindsay, now Helen Melvin. (so thats where that came from too)

I reckon this is our 1841 Agnes. And the odd thing is, the marriage record on IGI which led me there seems to have nothing at all to do with it!!!!! Funny how these things work out sometimes.

Best wishes
Lesley

john1022 · Post by **john1022** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:00 pm

Good evening Lesley
I'm beginning to think that you'd make a good partner with another
Scottish lady-Geraldine McEwan!.( As Mrs Marples).
There was I thinking we had settled where Agnes belonged in the scheme
of things,and you come up with another possibility. I say this, because you began by saying 'there were a few loose ends'etc.Now I'm not sure
that Agnes has at last come home.
Wish we could find out more about the instigator of all this-Thomas Lyon.
I am still waiting to hear from the P.F.H experts.

Anyway well done!. John

p.s I had printed off a copy of the I.G.I Family Group Record re: the
Kilmaurs James and Helen, some time ago,but decided there was no connection-guess I have a lot to learn.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:01 pm

Oh, and, the street address at which Agnes Young Lyon-Fleming died was the same address at which Mary Lyon (dau of Thomas Lyon and Agnes Young) died in 1882. Too many coincidences for her not to be ours I reckon....

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:03 pm

The Kilmaurs in the IGI submission may not be correct though I don't think - they have, I reckon, thought that since she was married there she must be from there! Unless her mother was from there....and she was born there - dunno! She is stated as born Loudon in the 1851

john1022 · Post by **john1022** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:23 pm

Well the same St address seems to make another positive connection-
I can't think of any thing else to add!
John