Thomas Ross - Where did he come from, where did he go?.....

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:48 pm

After sitting quiet for a while finding our how the site works, I've decided to launch in! I'm searching for proof that my great-great grandfather, Thomas Ross, was actually who I've been told he was!

A little bit of history. My research starts from a family tree compiled by a great-uncle, probably in the 1930s withouth recourse to records. It gave only direct descendents with no dates & no wives or husbands names. This said that Thomas was the son of Alexander Ross & Agnes Stewart who lived "sometime in Lochwinnoch, afterwards in Eaglesham". Sure enough, Alexander & Agnes married in Lochwinnoch in 1794 & had a wheen o' kids between then & 1799 (all on OPR) - but no Thomas. Then there's a gap until 1806, when there's another wheen o' kids - but no Thomas. However, Thomas son Alexander (my great-grandfather) had the good sense to get married in March 1861 from the family home at 36 Main Street, Bridgeton - so I had an address for the 1861 census. In this Thomas gave his place of birth as Sutherland & the place looked like Lairg spelled Lairgh. He lived there with his wife Isabella & the youngest of his children - Thomas, aged 16 born the the Stewartry & Agnes, aged 13 born in Gatehouse of Fleet. What a well-travelled family! As Thomas was a cotton spinner the Gatehouse connection made sense & I've discovered who I think must be him in the 1851 census, married but lodging in Anwoth (the parish for part of Gatehouse) with only his daughter Mary, aged 14. He is described as a spinning master & his birth place is given as Spinningdale - which makes more sense than Lairg as there was a mill there for a while where Alexander, also a cotton spinner might have worked. I haven't yet tracked down the rest of the family in 1851 (In 1841 they were in Clyde Street, Glasgow).

Thomas is noted as being alive at the time his daughter Agnes married David May in 1867 but I can't find him in the 1871 census, nor can I find a birth entry for him or a death certificate. I presume great-uncle knew what he was talking about (and the information he gave on the other children checks out) but I can't find anything to attach Thomas to Alexander & Agnes. Anyone any ideas about where I go from here?????

Muriel

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:16 pm

Hi Muriel
Still mulling over the contents of your post, but just thought meantime I'd offer a warm welcome to Talking Scot

Hope we can come up wth something to help you out here!

Is there any chance your Thomas survived till after 1855? The 1861 marriage of his son - is he stated as deceased at that time?

Best wishes
Lesley

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:03 am

Hi Lesley, Thanks for the welcome. Yes, Thomas & his wife Isabella are both shown as being alive when their youngest child Agnes married on 2 April 1867 (644/3 #109). The next information I have is from their son Alexander's death certificate in 1897 when, not surprisingly, they are both recorded as deceased. However, there are no DCs for either of them, so I have to presume they died furth of Scotland. Muriel

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:34 am

Hi Muriel

Sure enough, Alexander & Agnes married in Lochwinnoch in 1794 & had a wheen o' kids between then & 1799 (all on OPR) - but no Thomas. Then there's a gap until 1806, when there's another wheen o' kids - but no Thomas.

Just a thought... have you seen the OPR? Is there an actual gap in the records between about 1799 & 1806? I ask because I have certianly seen that in the records for Kettle, Fife - it states on a page in the Kettle OPR:
"This record is wanting from August 1748 to Dec 1752"
- which was frustrating (to say the least!) as it spanned a time when the family I was looking at were having children, so I have a couple of kids I'm almost 100% sure are theirs, and one "maybe", but I can't prove it! But at least I know why....

Best wishes
Lesley

p.s. what is Isabella's surname?

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:40 am

Hi Lesley

I haven't actually looked at the original OPR - I hadn't thought of it. The wife is Isabella McDougall. They married in Eaglesham in 1824 (she is recorded as Isabel in the OPR) and their first child Jean was born there. Then they moved to Glasgow and the next 5 children (Alexander 1829, David 1830, Agnes 1832, Isabella 1834 & Mary 1836) are born in Barony. Then there's a gap, in which uncle has listed another 5 children - Jessie, John, William, Thomas & Agnes. The 1841 census shows all the children up to Mary, except for Agnes who presumably died in infancy. It wasn't until I found the 1861 census entry that I found birth places for the last 2 children - the only ones still at home. It may be that Jessie, John & William all died at or shortly after birth & were never baptised & they may not come where I have them on the tree - the notes I made it up from were fairly scrappy.

I've never found any information on Isabella who is shown on the 1861 census as being 53 and born in Glasgow; Thomas's age is given as 56. This ties in with the ages given in the 1841 census, where both of them are shown as 35, and the 1851 for Thomas where his age is given as 46 and Mary's as 14. The 2 youngest children may well be listed somewhere in the non-established church records as the family certainly became members of the UP church later on, but I don't supposed this helps me much with Thomas. Even if he (& possibly another brother William) were born while their parents were away from their home parish I would have expected them to be baptised on return with their younger siblings. Aargh!!

Muriel

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:02 pm

Hi Muriel
Have you tried a death search on SP for Isabella?
I tried:
Is*b* Ross , other name M*cDouga*l , born 1810 +/- 5 years, and there is one....in Lanark in 1895. Don't know if she is your one or not but if she is, her death should give you her parents' names.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:10 pm

Hi Muriel
A parent search on IGI reveals the following, but most are submissions: (those in bold are extracts)

Scotland, British Isles
Father: Thomas Ross, Mother: Isabella Mcdougall
Exact Spelling: Off

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 18

1. AGNES ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 APR 1832

2. AGNES ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 13 MAY 1832 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

3. DAVID ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 05 JUN 1830

4. DAVID ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 24 JUN 1830 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

5. DAVID ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 05 JUN 1830

6. DAVID ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 24 JUN 1830 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
7. JEAN ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 APR 1725 Eaglesham, Renfrew, Scotland

8. ALEXANDER ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 JAN 1827

9. ALEXANDER ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 FEB 1827 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

10. ISABELLA ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 FEB 1834

11. ISABELLA ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 MAR 1834 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

12. ISABELLA ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 FEB 1834

13. ISABELLA ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 MAR 1834 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

14. MARY ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 SEP 1836

15. MARY ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: OCT 1836 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

16. MARY ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 SEP 1836

17. MARY ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 16 OCT 1836 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

18. JEAN ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 APR 1825 Eaglesham, Renfrew, Scotland

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:50 pm

Hi Muriel
There are two Thomas Ross deaths in Lanarkshire based on a d.o.b. of 1805 +/- 5years between the years of 1861( or 1867 when you mention you last have a sighting of him) to 1910 on SP. But you may have checked these and know that they are not the one you are after?

Best wishes
Lesley

Muriel · Post by **Muriel** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:30 pm

Hi Lesley

I think I've looked at all the deaths for Thomas's & Isabellas from 1855 to about 1915, likely & unlikely, with no success. Neither can I find either of them in the 1871 census and yet, as far as I know, all the children I have traced are still in Scotland at that time. Verrry strange.

As far as I can see I'll just have to accept that the information I have is correct - I know that after Agnes (m. David May) emigrated to the States, she kept in touch and came back to visit. When she came she stayed with her nephew Alex, the great-uncle who compiled the tree, and I reckon he used his own memory and information he'd got from her to do it. The fact that all the information that I have been able to check is correct makes me think that even the stuff I can't check is, in essence, correct. However, it's been interesting to get another view on things - you can get to the stage that you can't see the obvious.

Many thanks & best wishes

Muriel

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:00 pm

Hi Muriel

I find it strange that a couple aged 56 and 58 in the 1861 census then disappear as far as later Scottish records are concerned.

Which leads me to two possibilities, - firstly the relevant records are hiding behind a mis-recording or a mis-transcription, - but there aren't many such for Ross, - the two classics being Rops or Rofs where the old style double "ss" of ƒs is mis-transcribed/indexed as "ps" or "fs" ........... with another occasional recording of Ross as Rose, - but I can't see any such possible matches on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk .

Which only leaves the far from unusual situation where the ageing parents went to live with a son or daughter, who might have been in England or elsewhere in the UK, or, however unlikely, across the N Atlantic, or, not completely unknown, down under somewhere in Australasia .............

Wha kens

David