Dumfries missing link.....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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DavidMK
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:45 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Dumfries missing link.....

Post by DavidMK » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:19 am

I've been trying to solve this one for a while, and hope someone out there might have some suggestions as to where to go next.

My gggf John Park was born in Dumfries in 1810. His death cert gives parents as Walter Park and Janet Milligan. Dumfries Kirk records show the birth as an illegitimate one.I have not been able to find any record of Walter's existence.

A potential set of parents in the OPRs are Walter Park and Elizabeth Blacklock,married in Moffat in 1762, but the records only show six female children, and no boys. I have read in other forums of missing pages of male children, and wonder if this has happened here.

Our family lore is that Walter had a relative named Ann Park, and as it turns out one of the six children of Walter and Elizabeth was named Ann, she was born in Moffat in 1869.

I am assuming because of his age the senior Walter was not the father of my John in 1810, he would have been at least 70 at the time.??

I look forward to any and all comments.

PS I think this is a GREAT site as are the people who participate.

David.

LesleyB
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Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:29 am

Hi David
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot. :D

I'm not familiar with the Dumfries area as I don't have any family research interests there, but I'm sure someone will be along soon who can fill you in on the IGI records for that area. It certainly sounds, from what you say, that it just may be one of those areas where only female births are listed online on the IGI. Have you tried a search on Scotlands People for his birth? When & where did John die?
Dumfries Kirk records show the birth as an illegitimate one
Have you seen the above record that you mention?
Best wishes
Lesley

DavidMK
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:45 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by DavidMK » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:21 am

Thanks for your reply and welcome Lesley, you must be on the night shift. I saw the records of Kirk Sessions on Dumfries and Galloway website.

John Park was a shoemaker, and first married Marion Kerr in 1833, and then married Margaret Connel in Glasgow in 1842. He died in Glasgow in 1888.In Glasgow he lived in Parkhead, on Westmuir Street.

David

JustJean
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Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:27 am

Hi David and welcome!

I've done a bit of looking and have some questions and a few observations....but no breakthroughs just yet :(

Was the Margaret PARK living with John in 1881 and born in Glasgow really his sister? If so who were her parents... since she is listed as unamarried and surname of PARK??

Since John married both times before statutory registration I'm assuming there's no chance to pick up his parents names stated from these records...but that is only an assumption....have you viewed both his OPR marriages yet?? If not....hopefully SP will have the images coming online in the next few months :roll: ...just in case there is a mention of parents names there to confirm indeed you're looking for a Walter Park and Janet Milligan.

The occupation of plasterer is an interesting one. From the 1841 census in Dumfries there is a William PARK who is a plasterer....and he's living with his son? named William who is also a plasterer....perhaps a coincidence but William the younger and his wife Elizabeth have baby son named Walter. Of course in 1841 relationships are not stated and birthplaces are not specific but they are all born Dumfrieshire....except for Elizabeth who is born in England. I didn't find a likely looking Walter in this census.

One other possible not mentioned....there is another Walter PARK family in Dumfries, Canobie who have a Walter born in 1797....he'd only be 15 in 1812 to have fathered John....but.....it's possible I spose.....and they have an Annie born in 1806......

PARK, Violet Bir 1792 Scot Dumf Canonb
Fa: Walter PARK
Mo: Jannet PASLEY
PARK, Elizabeth Bir 1795 Scot Dumf Canonb
Fa: Walter PARK
Mo: Jannet PASLEY
PARK, Walter Bir 1797 Scot Dumf Canonb
Fa: Walter PARK
Mo: Janet PASLEY
PARK, Ilian Bir 1800 Scot Dumf Canonb
Fa: Walter PARK
Mo: Janet PASLEY
PARK, Mary Bir 1803 Scot Dumf Canonb
Fa: Walter PARK
Mo: Jannet PAISLEY
PARK, Annie Bir 1806 Scot Dumf Canonb
Fa: Walter PARK
Mo: Jannet PAISLEY

I'm still thinking.....

Best wishes
Jean

SarahND
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Re: Dumfries missing link

Post by SarahND » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:07 pm

DavidMK wrote:I am assuming because of his age the senior Walter was not the father of my John in 1810, he would have been at least 70 at the time.??
Well, ahem!! I would certainly not rule him out on account of age. My ggg grandfather fathered his last child at 69, and it is perfectly possible to father a child quite a bit later than that 8)

Regards,
Sarah

DavidMK
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:45 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by DavidMK » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:21 pm

Like you Jean I hae ma doubts that margaret is John's sister. I have not come across her in any other location. He had a daughter Margaret but she was younger and married, also living in Parkhead (New Road now Duke St) Her married name was McNaught.

Thanks for the other Walter Park family, I had discounted the son as he would only have been 13 at Johns birth, however , as Sarah says you cant count out the 70 year old nor I suppose the 13 year old.Johns death certificate indicates Walter and Janet Milligan got married, but who knows?
The other possibility of course is Walter husband of Janet Pasley, they were married in 1791 and so he would be the more reasonable prospect from an age point of view.

The connection to Ann Park is the most problematic. She was born about 1770, which is why I was leaning toward the Park/Blacklock family, whose Ann was born in 1769.The Ann I am looking for was the barmaid in the Globe Inn, and had a baby with Robert Burns. All the historians say she was born in Edinburgh, and yet they often contradict each other on other aspects of her life and all of them including the most recent historians (this century) have got details of her life after Burns wrong.So much so i am questioning everything until I see documentation, like a few good genealogists keep telling me I should..I suspect this is one brick wall I wont get past, but any comments will be appreciated.

David
Winnipeg, Canada

Davie
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: Glasgow

Post by Davie » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:56 pm

Hi David,
Cannie help too much oan yer Park side, know aboot the Connell connection, but had nothing on John Park.
Have a bit oan the Parks frae Ayrshire, Jane married tae Finlay McNaughton.
Had a wee quick shuftiie through whit ah huv, but nowt frae Dumb-chips
However, if ye ever decide tae look at the McNaught side, jist let me know.
have all McNt hatches matches and despatches frae the Second City, Including your Margaret and William (a slater by trade ) and kids.
I am also well clued up oan the East End o' Glasgow.
There are eight ither like minded researchers and we regularly exchange information.
Will see if a kin fin' oaythin furr ye later.
Awrabest and Welcome tae TS,
Frae a rainsoaked toon the day
Davie

DavidMK
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:45 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by DavidMK » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:06 am

Hi Davie, I wouldn't mind comparing notes on McNaughts.(my middle name) I think I have got most of them.

William McN and Mgt Park were my ggparents. Wm's parents were David McNaught and Elizabeth McCrossan,and David's parents were James McN and Julia Duncan.

My gm was Mgt McN and until I had started this hobby(compulsion?)I had little or no info on her siblings and their offspring. I have tracked some of them (2nd cousins) down to England, Australia, and 3 in USA. There are others in USA (Kerrs) that I havent been lucky with.

I am familiar with the East End having grown up in Parkhead and attending school in Parkhead and Eastbank, but that was more than a few years ago

A' ra best
David

HeatherH
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Post by HeatherH » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:52 pm

Just a thought but I also have rellies missing in Dumfries . I have the parents marriage and the births of many of the children but can't find hide nor hair of my 2nd great Grandfathers birth . He just seems to magically appear on the census . If its an illigit birth then that may also have something to do with it as I had to do quite a bit of digging to find the marriage (irregular) of my 4th great Grandparents .
On our side topic I also have McNaught (McNight or McNaughton ) Mary McNaught has her irregular marriage , a few mentions in the kirk records and is found in the 1841 census for Dumfries but other than that she is a perfect fit for this branch of my family whech seems to have just magically appeared out of thin air . :lol:
Happy Hunting,
HeatherH

PS How do you know its my first day off work in over a week . Easy. We have finally had our first snow storm of the winter ( we were still wearing thin jackets and t-shirts a few days ago) the temperature is dropping to - 13 and the boiler in our building is out so no heat or hot water .thank heavens for bad luck or I'd have none . :D
Looking for ...but not limited to Haldane ,Keir ,McLauchlan ,Walker ,Torrance , Reid ,Clark ,Johnstone ,Holmes ,Laurie ,Lawrie ,Strachan , McIlwee ,Welsh ,Queate ,Stewert ,McNight ,Steele ,Cockburn ,Young ....whew! That's more than enough for now.

Davie
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: Glasgow

Post by Davie » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:02 pm

Hi David and Heather,
There were quite a lot of McNaught’s biding in the Border areas that originally moved from Antrim to avoid the religious upheavals in the 18th century.
It is quite a problem with the McKnight/McNaught naming.
I have well over 30000 records 0f Mcnts on disk, over 30 different spellings.
Mostly from Scotland, as my Ulster researches have ended with very little success.
David, I will be more than happy to exchange info with you, but you will probably have more than me.
However, I would really appreciate what you have.
The interesting bit on your genealogy is that William and Margaret have definitely followed the naming tradition for their children.

As far as I can see John Park and Margaret Connell had only the two children, Margaret and Hannah.
Margaret having died pre 1855, as she is on the 1851 census but not in 1861.


I am sure you have the 1881 census:, but just in case.
Dwelling: 9 Mc Ewan St
Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203634 GRO Ref Volume 644-2 EnumDist 45 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William MC NAUGHT M 41 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Master Slater Employing 1 Man
Margaret MC NAUGHT M 37 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
David MC NAUGHT U 16 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Slater
Margaret MC NAUGHT U 14 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Cotton P S Weaver
Eliza Mc C. MC NAUGHT 10 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
James MC NAUGHT 6 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Hannah P. MC NAUGHT 4 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
William MC NAUGHT 1 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son

As I said the naming pattern is fairly straightforward.
John Park McNaught died aged 3 in Bridgeton.



Dwelling: 155 Hallside Village
Census Place: Cambuslang, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203619 GRO Ref Volume 627 EnumDist 6 Page 33
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John HARPER M 30 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Gen Labourer
Hannah HARPER M 32 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Margaret HARPER 2 F Mid Calder, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur

Could you tell me who signed the death certificate for John Park?
That may help in tracing the family further back.
I am an east ender masel David, but we don’t mention Parkheid, well no this season oanywey.
Awrabest
Davie

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