Can anyone help with Campbells?

[laineywoo]

I am really up against the brick wall with my Campbells.......can anyone point me in the right direction please? Heres what I have so far.

Peter Campbell born abt 1857...[will come back to the DOB shortly!]
married Grace Boyle on 27/05/1881 at Sheddens? Parish of Cathcart Renfrew. According to the wedding cert he was 24 years at this time giving me the date of 1857 above. He died 24/11/1936 Grahamsdyke Street Laurieston.
I have no problems so far with Grace.
I have Peter on both 1891 and 1901 census's for definate, both state that he was born Glasgow Lanarkshire.
Peter and Grace married just before the 1881 census. On his wedding cert of the same year, his residence is marked as Eaglesham where he was at that time a farm servant. Based on this info, I THINK I have him in the 1881 census..........
DWELLING WINDHILL, EAGLESHAM RENFREW.
PETER CAMPBELL SERV UNMARRIED AGE 24 MALE FARM SERVANT BORN GLASGOW LANARKSHIRE.
My problem.........I cant find him prior to this.
His wedding and death certs state father was James Campbell. On wedding cert in 1881 James is marked as deceased Sailor, and on Peters death cert, canal tracker deceased
Mother is marked on wedding cert as Mary Kearney.......NOT deceased
and on his death cert as Mary Cairnie Deceased
Peter and Grace were married in the Roman Catholic church........I dont know that this makes any difference here, but just trying to cover all bases!
On trying to find any info for James and Mary, I got one wedding date from LDS as 02/02/1851 Barony Lanark, but can find no birth for Peter or any siblings and no death at all anywhere for Mary or James.
If Peter was born 1857, this would mean that def his mother was alive then so why cant I get a death cert?
I am beginning to think that Peter may have been orphaned.......where would I try and look next??????Any ideas? This family has been driving me nuts for the last 3 years. Cheers Lainey
Sorry should add, they married in Cathcart as I mentioned, then must have stayed in both Hamilton and Carstairs, before moving to Grangemouth about 1885....Grace was born Bathgate.

[emanday]

Hi Lainey,

I couldn't find any sign of children for James and Mary on the BIVRI discs, but did notice the wide variations in spelling of her surname.

Apart from the Kearney/Cairnie you mentioned, I found Carney, Kerney, Carnee, Carny, Kearny, Carney and Kerny and this is just an example! There are even some with Mc or Mac in front. You might have to be very creative with the wildcards on SP to find her.

I also noticed that a lot seemed to originate in Ireland.

[laineywoo]

Hi Mary
Thanks for having a look! I have tried as many wildcards etc as I can think of for Mary Cairnie........or whatever!
Irish connection is more than likely. But going back to the census info, Peter was supposedly born Glasgow.
Peters wife Grace was born Bathgate, but her father john was Irish, but I havent found from where. There are quite alot of Irish in the family, and I am finding more and more of them married either Irish or children of an Irish family that were born here. I am assuming that alot of them coming here, kept close communities. My husbands Gardiner side proved this in a fab way! The result was that hubbies gr gr grandad's neice, also came over from Ireland, and the way it works is that she ends up as my hubbies Gr Gran on the other side.......had great fun working that one out
Getting carried away now!
I will go back to SP just now and try looking for Mary with a Mc or Mac in front.....I think thats possibly the only thing I havent tried.
I'll let you know if I have any luck
Thanks again Lainey

[AnneM]

Hi Lainey

I take it you've looked for Peter's birth under the name Kearney or Cairney or variants! And also looked for Patrick for Peter.

Anne

[laineywoo]

Hi Anne
Tried every variation I can poss think of for Cairnie etc......took Marys advice from earlier and tried with * in front of all varients to cover for Mc....Only results that look remote are ones I have already viewed.
Havent tried Patrick for Peter.........never heard of that one before, I'm going to give that a bash just now........literally just did a search of Patrick Campbells born 1855-1859. 3 results for Glasgow so will download them in the morning......need to go get more credits. Is this a common interchange on names? I've just never come across that before.....other Patricks are all listed as such as are peters.....you learn something new every day!
Thanks Anne, will let you know how that one pans out. A friend has ancestry and I will ask her to check on this idea for me too.
Lainey

[laineywoo]

Hi Anne
Sorry, couldnt wait til morning Thought I could get a rough idea about which births would be right by checking Scots origins first against results from SP.......Can you believe this!!! On SO there is a birth in High Church Paisley 09/12/1856 for a Peter Cairney born to Mary Cairney. This is the closest I have ever found........BUT the same one doesnt seem to be on SP???
There is one on SP same area Peter Cairns but this is not the same.....already tried it........What on earth am I doing wrong???
Lainey

[AndrewP]

Hi Lainey,

There is a Peter Cairney (illegitimate) born to Mary Cairney on 09-Dec-1856 on SP. The birth was registered in Paisley (Middle Church) parish in 1856.

Like SO, the online IGI shows this birth as Paisley (High Church), but that is because both of these lump all Pasley parishes together from 1855. SP has used the individual parishes within Paisley to arrive at Paisley (Middle Parish). SO and the IGI are both guilty of these approximations right across Scotland where the major parishes were subdivided by GROS from 1855. The subdivisions appear accurately on SP.

There is an entry on the 1861 census that could be Mary and Peter in Paisley (Middle Church) parish - same street as the 1856 birth. She is a 23 year old daughter in the household, with him appearing as son (to her parents) age 5.

All the best,

AndrewP

[laineywoo]

Hi Andrew
Eventually managed to find and download the entry for Peter Cairney.....big thank you!
PETER CAIRNEY BORN 09/12/1856 10 OLD S? [CANT QUITE MAKE IT OUT!] PAISLEY. ILLIGITIMATE MOTHER MARY CAIRNEY [OCCUPATION LOOKS LIKE ? HOUSE WORKER..] SIGNED AS MARY CAIRNEY, HER MARK AND WITNESSED BY THE REGISTRAR.
What I would have hoped to see on this though, is a mark for corrections, that would then hopefully show his name as being changed to Campbell. There is no mention of a father or reputed father on the cert.
How do I now find out if this is the same Mary and Peter?? Would it be a question of ONLY the 1861 census to base it on....
Sorry if I am sounding really dense here.........I'm feeling it too!!
Lainey

[AnneM]

Lainey

Does the MC and DC give mother as Mary Campbell m.s. Cairney or whatever or just Mary Cairney. If she never married Mr Campbell she may have married someone else in which case your chances of finding her go way down hill!! Sad but true.

Anne

[AndrewP]

Hi Lainey,

The address is 10 Old Sneddon. The 1861 census shows the family group, as CAIRNIE, to be at 11 Old Sneddon Street. I am assuming this to be the same family group, but there is no absolute proof of that. The 1861 census gives some potential siblings for Peter They could also be cousins as some of Mary's siblings, or they may even be young siblings of Mary's, are there too in Mary's parents' house.

Or the other possibility which needs to be kept in mind is that this is not even the right family group unless you find any other data to link them. So no, you are not being dense, there is just not enough information here to prove the family links that you are seeking.

All the best,

AndrewP