2nd Battalion Scots Fusiliers

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jgmills
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Blantyre

2nd Battalion Scots Fusiliers

Post by jgmills » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:52 pm

I wonder if anyone can shed some light on a problem I'm having.

I recently discovered a 2nd Great-granduncle, John Mitchell, in the 1861 census living in Speymouth, and he was a Chelsea Pensioner, I've confirmed it was him by finding his death certificate. On checking in the 1841 census in England I found him in the 2nd Battalion of the Scots Fusiliers in St George's Barracks in London, as a private. Three of his children were born in Chelsea between 1842 -1856. So I guess he was there all that time.

So sometime between 1841 and 1861 he was invalided out of the army(?) I've also found a website about the Crimea War, that lists casulaties in the many battles.

www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/militarymain.html

I've found a John Mitchell wounded at the Battle of Alma in 1954. However, it seems to be the 1st Battalion Scots Fusilers, that fought in this battle.

So my questions are:- Is this my John Mitchell? If so did soliders move between Battalions or would the army use soldiers from one batallion to bolster the numbers of another battalion to cover for casualties?

Any help would be gratefully received.

John

DavidWW
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: 2nd Battalion Scots Fusiliers

Post by DavidWW » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:54 am

jgmills wrote:I wonder if anyone can shed some light on a problem I'm having.

I recently discovered a 2nd Great-granduncle, John Mitchell, in the 1861 census living in Speymouth, and he was a Chelsea Pensioner, I've confirmed it was him by finding his death certificate. On checking in the 1841 census in England I found him in the 2nd Battalion of the Scots Fusiliers in St George's Barracks in London, as a private. Three of his children were born in Chelsea between 1842 -1856. So I guess he was there all that time.

So sometime between 1841 and 1861 he was invalided out of the army(?) I've also found a website about the Crimea War, that lists casualties in the many battles.

www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/militarymain.html

I've found a John Mitchell wounded at the Battle of Alma in 1954. However, it seems to be the 1st Battalion Scots Fusilers, that fought in this battle.
A point on terminology first.

It's very likely that your situation involves the Scots Fuzilier Guards, eventually numbered as the Third Regiment of Foot Guards, especially given the mention of St George's Barracks, but there is a small chance that this could be the 21st of Foot, eventually known as the Royal Scots Fusiliers, except that the dates don't really fit for the latter name. Prior to 1877 the 21st were mostly known by the name The (Royal) North British Fusiliers.

Just to confuse matters, the guards regiment was often known as just the "Scots Fu[z/s]iliers" :!:
So my questions are:- Is this my John Mitchell? If so did soldiers move between Battalions or would the army use soldiers from one batallion to bolster the numbers of another battalion to cover for casualties?

Any help would be gratefully received.

John
Transfer between battalions (even regiments) was much common than generally realised, especially when a battalion was going overseas to a theatre of war, so a transfer here between the 2nd Bn and 1st Bn is very much on the cards. In fact a battalion going overseas was often made "over strength" by a company or two in anticipation of casualties, not just from injuries sustained in action, but illness.

A matching John MITCHELL doesn't appear in the on-line TNA Catalogue, but his discharge date may have been such that his record is not yet in the on-line index.

Always assuming that the records have survived there should be discharge papers in the WO97 series and pension records in the WO121 series. There may be relevant papers in other WO series.

With no on-line entry the next step is to visit Kew or to engage the services of a specialist military records researcher (I can recommend several).

David

PS Three kids born in Chelsea, - which I managed to overlook!, - that makes it 99.9% certain that we're talking the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards. I'll be fascinated to see what his height turns out to be from his discharge papers, as the guards regiments preferred tall recruits :wink:
dww

jgmills
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Blantyre

2nd Battalion Scots Fusiliers

Post by jgmills » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:12 am

David,

Many thanks for your reply.

You are correct in that it is the Scots Fu(z/s)ilier Guards. I have been carrying out further research. I've actually got the image of the 1841 census - and at the top of the page it does say 2nd Battalion Scots Fusilier Guards.

From what I've read the Guards were hit badly with Dysentry and Cholera when they arrived in the Crimea, so just as well they took plenty of 'spares'.

I hadn't thought to check the TNA Catalogue, but I can see a trip to Kew coming up soon to check out the papers you suggest. It always a challenge, I knew of another relative who had died at Ypres in 1917, sadly the Germans got him twice, as there are no signs of his records, I guess they were part of the records destroyed in WWII.
I'll be fascinated to see what his height turns out to be from his discharge papers, as the guards regiments preferred tall recruits
Sadly the years have been unkind to my immediate family as none of us have made it to 6ft :lol:

John

Julie Barker
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Re: 2nd Battalion Scots Fusiliers

Post by Julie Barker » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:21 pm

JGMills, I am almost certain the John Mitchell you are describing is my 3rd great-grandfather, so we are relatives. I am descended from his oldest daughter, Elizabeth Cooley Mitchell (Collins after she was married). It seems like we could probably help each other fill in some missing pieces in the ancestry puzzle. I know I am responding to a very old post, but I hope you see this and respond nonetheless. I am excited to have found a living relative in Scotland and look forward to hearing from you soon.
--Julie Barker, Las Vegas, NV, USA

Russell
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Re: 2nd Battalion Scots Fusiliers

Post by Russell » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:44 pm

Hi Julie and a warm welcome to [talkingscot]

What a great link for your long-lost relative!! we enjoy a buzz every time a searcher turns up with new information and even better... a family link thanks to an old post =D> =D> =D> . We don't consider any post "old". If you want to exchange modern or private information use our PM (personal message) button but any info you feel free to post on the board might just help turn up another lost family member :D

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
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Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

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