Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

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littlealison
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Location: Oxfordshire , UK

Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by littlealison » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:06 am

I'm not sure quite where to put this one, but it starts in Scotland:
My gggrandfather John Little was in partnership with an Archibald Connal Stevenson in Glasgow (Stevenson and Little, bottlemakers, approx 1862 to 1870, when the partnership was dissolved.)

I have been sent, last year, partial papers about Stevenson' s bankruptcy in 1882-6, which have him as having property in Garngadhill, the Caledonian Glass Works - but also says 'Ringsend Glass Bottle Co.'....at the time I didn't know enough to connect this with anything!
The papers I have, from 1886, are just a history of the land the works were on on in Glasgow, by that time only Stevenson's (Abridgment of Sasines) and no details of the bankruptcy, except that it 'arose from innocent misfortunes'.

I've since discovered that John's son, also John Little, did work there in Ringsend, possibly 1870 or so and not at the time of the bankruptcy, although he was still in Ireland - but I keep being puzzled at this Irish connection, the only one I have seen. Can anyone throw any light on this?
Researching:
LITTLE - Scotland, Lancashire, Dublin and South Africa. And Canada.
RITCHIE, BARR - Scotland
ANDREWS, MEMERY, DOWSE and BIRMINGHAM - Dublin
PRICE, JACKSON, ROGERS, ALLEN - N. Wales

johnniegarve
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Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:57 am

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by johnniegarve » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:12 pm

Alison, the Glasgow & West of Scotland Family History Soc' have a publication called "The Glassworkers of Scotland", this names a load of glassworkers, living in the Garngad, hadn't realised there was a glassworks there also, a couple of extracts,
James Stivenson, a glassmaker, Glasgow, 1774.
Peter Stevenson, glass manufacturer, 153 Garthland Drive, Dennistoun, Glasgow, age 28, born Glasgow 1853.
George Stevenson, glasswork finisher, 22 Springburn Road, Glasgow, age 33, born Glasgow 1848.
A couple of interesting sites,
http://www.ScotlandsGlass.co.uk
http://www.dumbarton.online.com/glass.htm
Cheers, Johnnie.

littlealison
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Oxfordshire , UK

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by littlealison » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:40 pm

Hello Johnnie.
Thanks for this. I've seen the Dumbarton site, as the older John worked there and came to Glasgow when it closed about 1850...the other one i haven't seen and it looks interesting.
Archibald Stevenson was born about 1829, he had a son called Peter also a brother - I don't know of a George from the censuses but I bet he was some relation.
I wonder if James Stivenson was? Glassmaking is definitely a family thing.

Still wondering about the Irish connection..Alison
Researching:
LITTLE - Scotland, Lancashire, Dublin and South Africa. And Canada.
RITCHIE, BARR - Scotland
ANDREWS, MEMERY, DOWSE and BIRMINGHAM - Dublin
PRICE, JACKSON, ROGERS, ALLEN - N. Wales

Currie
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by Currie » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:06 pm

Hello Alison,

I’m not sure exactly what Irish connection you’re trying to establish but here are some newspaper references to John Little.

The Irish Times and Daily Advertiser, Dublin, 22 July 1873
John Little, 8 Havelock-street, manager of the Irish Glass Bottle Works, Charlotte quay assaulted by an employee.

Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser, Dublin, August 8, 1874
John Little, foreman at the Ringsend Bottle Works assaulted by an employee.

The Irish Times, Dublin, 21 Dec 1874
John Little, manager of Irish Glass Bottle Works, Ringsend, harassed by a former employee.

The Irish Times, Dublin, 27 Aug 1886
An indentured apprentice claims damages from James A. King, proprietor of bottle works at Ringsend. John Little was manager for Mr. King.

All the best,
Alan

littlealison
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Oxfordshire , UK

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by littlealison » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:32 am

Hi Alan.
This is where confusion sets in. The John Little who was partners with Stevenson in Glasgow didn't go to Dublin to work, he went about 1872 to Newton-le-Willows in Lancashire and stayed there until 1889 when he died.
The John Little who went to Ireland, his son, probably didn't have any business connection with Stevenson. It's possible he was employed at the works in Glasgow.
The Irish Times cuttings I haven't seen before, but they fit in fairly well, except that the last one (did it actually name John?) may be his grandson......since the second John left for South Africa that year! Did this one actually name John? They do raise some other questions, especially the first one.
And I'm glad to have been made to think about the whole thing again!

The main connection I am trying to find out about is that of Stevenson with the Ringsend Bottle Works. I've realised now that he may just have been connected much later on, of course, than his partnership with John One in Glasgow - but all the rest I have found about him is in Scotland not Ireland, this one thing stands out.
Thanks yet again for your research - Alison
Researching:
LITTLE - Scotland, Lancashire, Dublin and South Africa. And Canada.
RITCHIE, BARR - Scotland
ANDREWS, MEMERY, DOWSE and BIRMINGHAM - Dublin
PRICE, JACKSON, ROGERS, ALLEN - N. Wales

Currie
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by Currie » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:37 pm

Hello Alison,

Freeman’s Journal coverage of the 1886 matter also refers to ‘John Little’, see hereunder, and a few more odds and ends.

Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin), Saturday, August 9, 1884
Mr Little, manager of Mr Kings bottle factory at Ringsend, gives evidence against a thief. The manager’s son helped apprehend the thief.

Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin), Friday, February 26, 1886
Two men accused of intimidating Thomas and Richard Little who had refused to go on strike at Irish Glass Bottle Company, Ringsend.

Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin), Friday, August 27, 1886
The apprenticeship case. Refers to “Mr. John Little, manager of Mr. King’s works”

The Irish Times, Dublin, 10 Jan 1899
Comment on the history of the exploded Hibernian Glass Bottle Works boiler “……. Samuel Graham, of Glasgow, who in 1892, sold it to Mr Little, the then proprietor of these bottleworks”

Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin), Wednesday, January 11, 1899
Evidence into boiler explosion at Hibernian Glass Bottle Works includes “Messrs Burke purchased the works at Ringsend in November, 1893, from Mr Little, the then proprietor, who had become a bankrupt. They retained Mr Little as manager of the works until he went to South Africa. Mr Campbell, who was a thoroughly competent man, was then appointed as manager.”

All the best,
Alan

littlealison
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Oxfordshire , UK

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by littlealison » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:07 pm

Alan - I will answer, but I've asked for this thread to be moved to Ireland - I have too many Irish questions and comments for here....Alison
Researching:
LITTLE - Scotland, Lancashire, Dublin and South Africa. And Canada.
RITCHIE, BARR - Scotland
ANDREWS, MEMERY, DOWSE and BIRMINGHAM - Dublin
PRICE, JACKSON, ROGERS, ALLEN - N. Wales

littlealison
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: Oxfordshire , UK

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by littlealison » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:00 am

Hello again.
Seems we're not to be moved....I will just carry on.
Alan - you are blowing my theories apart about John Little in Ireland. I had a reasonable timeline where he started at the Ringsend Bottle Works in 1870 - since the Irish Glass Bottle Works was as far as I know being built at the time - as foreman, went to the IGBW as foreman, and worked his way up, taking out a useful patent in 1875 on the way for improvements to furnaces, to manager.....now I am far less sure of his status.

I have only had access to the Freemans' Journal, so anything that was just in the Irish Times is new, particularly the first one. He's down as living at 8, Havelock Square when he married again in 1871 - there doesn't seem to be a Havelock Street. But on checking the certificate I realised he's put himself down as 'Glass Bottle Manufacturer', which hadn't registered on me before.

He isn't in any censuses in Scotland or Lancashire for 1871, of course, which would have helped.In 1861 he's just married and gone off to Edinburgh, where he's down as 'Bolth blower, journeyman.' Something seems a bit unlikely here, especially the idea that both the first two newpaper articles are accurate! The Freeman's Journal didn't always get it right either, I found several letters from bottle work spokesmen saying 'this strike (or fire) wasn't at our works, it was at theirs'....

I did find the articles about the explosion, including all the gory details about what happened.
John, in South Africa by then, must have been gutted at the deaths, particularly as the older man had worked with this father in the early 1860s.
I would appreciate any information that is in the Irish Times and not in the Freeman's Journal about him!
Thanks again - Alison.
Researching:
LITTLE - Scotland, Lancashire, Dublin and South Africa. And Canada.
RITCHIE, BARR - Scotland
ANDREWS, MEMERY, DOWSE and BIRMINGHAM - Dublin
PRICE, JACKSON, ROGERS, ALLEN - N. Wales

Currie
Posts: 3701
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by Currie » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:18 am

Hello Alison,

I’ve rounded up the Irish Times articles I previously mentioned and a few other odds and ends. They’re in pdf format and have the publication details embedded. If you would like copies just send me a PM with an email address and I’ll send them.

All the best,
Alan

robertM
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:44 am

Re: Scots bottlemaker with an Irish connection?

Post by robertM » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:08 am

Sorry this is a bit late and may only be of passing interest:
My gggfather was a John McLaren who owned a sausage casing factory in Glasgow in 1871: he was married to a Little.
His son, John McLaren, set up a small glassworks (King's ) in Ringsend Dublin. That may have been managed by a Thomas (?) Little. Another of my gggfathers Francis Murray also worked there.
They all seem to have come to Dublin via a town called Ashby(?)in Northern England

Cheers

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