New Member Seeking Help

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tishgibbons
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

New Member Seeking Help

Post by tishgibbons » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:19 pm

Hi,
I have just joined your grouop although I have been using scotlandspeople for some time. I am also a member of Aberdeen NESFHS and Stonehaven Genealogy. Can anyone help me trace two ancestors? My g.g.grandfather Peter Mitchell came to Ireland around 1870. His sister Helen b. 25/10/1846 Strathdon had an illegitimate son Charles b. 31/5/1868. I found him but not her in the 1871 census in Strathdon with his grandmother Margart Mitchell nee Grassick. Peter also had a brother Charles b. 8/6/1850 who is in Strathdon in the 1871 census with his mother and nephew above. I cvan find no further trace of any of these people except that Charles was still alive in 1886 when he was present at his father William's death and the Poor Relief records for William and Margaret indicate they are alive at least. This family were mostly domestic and agricultural servants. Maybe they worked on estates away from Aberdeenshire. Any ideas?
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

Alcluith
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:19 pm

Helen Mitchell

Post by Alcluith » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:01 am

Tish

Did you Know that Helen, Peter and Charles had another sibling Marian Mitchell born 18 May 1840 in Crathie & Braemar. So could she have went to her big sisters? The other possibility is that she died soon after childbirth.

Widen your search for the family as the could have been fee'd and moved out of the area as you suggested.

Do you have the 1881 census info?

There is also someone in the LDS with information they might be worth a search
Burns, Quinn - Glasgow, N.Ireland
McLeod, Mackay, Nicholson, McNeil - Skye
James, McLeod, Sinclair, Smith - Renton
Davidson, Adie, Gibb - Aberdeen
Jolly, Wishart - Angus
Usher - Newcastle
Mullen, Roe - Dublin
O'Donnell - Ireland, Alexandria

tishgibbons
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

New Member Seeking Help

Post by tishgibbons » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:51 pm

Thanks Drew,

Yes I am aware of Marian. I didn't include her in the message for that reason and because I found her marriage to Thomas Wilson and the birth of 6 children. I also found the marriages of two of these, Jane and Margaret to William Gauld and William Allanach respectively, both of Glenbuchat. I also found some of their children. Nothing after the death of Alexander Allanach in 1928 and no Gaulds either after the death of Jane in 1936. Would love to find any living relatives of them.

AS to 1881, no I don't have copies. I try to use Scotland online and a friend at the ANESFHS has been very kind with lookups. I don't know where else to try. How do I get my hands on information about being "fee'd" or estate papers?

Regards and thanks for your interest,

Tish
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:52 pm

Tish

This seems to be the grandparents, William and Margaret, in 1881:

Dwelling: Corriebreck
Census Place: Strathdon, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203466 Volume 240 EnumDist 4 Page 11

William MITCHELL – Head – Mar – 71 – M – Pauper – Crathie, Aberdeen
Margaret MITCHELL - Wife – Mar – 58 – F – Pauper – Strathdon, Aberdeen


And at the previous schedule but same address, which probably confirms that this is your Mitchell pair ...

Dwelling: Corriebreck
Census Place: Strathdon, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203466 Volume 240 EnumDist 4 Page 10

Helen GRASSICK – Head – Unm – 42 – F – Ag Lab – Strathdon, Aberdeen
James GRASSICK – Son – 11 – M – Scholar – Strathdon, Aberdeen

And another young Mitchell at the previous schedule to that, still at the same address ...

Dwelling: Corriebreck
Census Place: Strathdon, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203466 Volume 240 EnumDist 4 Page 10

John HAY – Head – Mar – 27 – M – Tea Hawker – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Margaret HAY – Wife – Mar – 37 – F – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Ann F. HAY – Daur – 1 m – F – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Mary A. MC HARDY – Step Daur – 14 – F – Dom serv (Out of Employ) – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Margaret J. MITCHELL – Step Daur – 11 – F – Scholar – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Isabella A. COUTTS – Step Daur – 8 – F – Scholar – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Helen J. COUTTS – Step Daur – 5 – F – Strathdon, Aberdeen
James MC HARDY – Nephew – 3 – M – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Jane MC HARDY – Mother-in-law – Wid – 73 – F – Pauper – Strathdon, Aberdeen

(Looks a complicated family, this one!)

And yet again, still at Corriebreck and presumably connected to some of the step children above ...

Dwelling: Corriebreck
Census Place: Strathdon, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203466 Volume 240 EnumDist 4 Page 10

George COUTTS – Head – Wid – 69 – M – Pauper – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Jane COUTTS - Daur – Unm – 32 – F – Pauper – Strathdon, Aberdeen (Handicap: Imbecile)


Still at the same address but without any obvious family link to yours is 49-yr-old Margaret Dow, a shoemaker's widow, with 6 children ranging in age from 6 to 23.

I couldn't find any sign of the Charles born 8/6/1850, even using just the first name with birth year 1850 +/- 3 in case the surname had been mis-transcribed. I also did a national search for him - England, Wales, Scotland, Isle of Man, Channel Islands - without finding anything likely. Could he have joined his brother in Ireland?

No sign of Helen or her son, Charles either, using the same searches. Have you considered the fact that Helen might have married after Charles' birth and before 1881 so might be under a different surname and that Charles junior might also have adopted that new surname? Having said that, I searched for all those with first name Helen, birth year 1846 +/- 2 and born in Strathdon and did the same for the name Charles without finding a matching pair of surnames. However, there was a Helen of exactly the right age who might be of interest ....

Dwelling: 31 Blackfriers Street
Census Place: Aberdeen St Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203443 Volume 168-1 EnumDist 10 Page 23

Helen GRASSICK – Head – Unm – 35 – F – Machinist – Strathdon, Aberdeen
Helen C. GRASSICK – Neice – 11 – F – Scholar – Aberdeen, Aberdeen

Do you think that this could be your Helen, having set out to lead a new life after Charles' birth by using her mother's maiden name? This one is exactly right age-wise.

Also living just down the road, though not the right age to be yours ...

Dwelling: 9 Blackfriers Street
Census Place: Aberdeen St Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203443 Volume 168-1 EnumDist 10 Page 25

Margaret DAVIDSON – Head – Wid – 71 – F – At Home – Cabrach, Aberdeen
Helen GRASSICK – Cousin – Unm – 30 – F – Dressmaker - Strathdon, Aberdeen
John FRASER – Boarder – Unm – 26 – M – Blacksmith – Killearnan, Ross and Cromarty

It might well be worth trying to see if you can account for the 35-yr-old Helen Grassick. If she doesn't appear to have any origin then she might well be your Helen Mitchell. I wouldn't have thought that Grassick was a particularly common name - but then, I could be wrong!

Mary

tishgibbons
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Post by tishgibbons » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:53 pm

Mary E

I'm fascinated! First of all I have details of William and Margaret. He is from Crathie and I found his parents Peter Mitchell and Mary Bowman and his siblinngs Mary, Charles, Peter, Donald, Stuart and Farquharson. Margaret is trickier - her death certificate declares her to be the daughter of Alexander Grassick and Mary Farquharson but I can find no such birth and no such couple. I don't know if you are familiar with Suzanne Walker's site regarding the Grassicks of Strathdon but she has a couple Alexander Grassick and "Ann" Farquharson whose age and other children suggest they might be Margaret's family. I suppose I'll never know.

Your information about the 1881 census - I'm not sure I understand. Is Corriebreck a townland? This is what I thought. The address Greenstyle cottages also shows up in this family and I presumed that the cottages were in Corriebreck. I never supposed that the other names would be automatically connected.

As to Helen, yes I presumed she married or if not that she assumed the name of the father of her child. This has happened elsewhere in this family. Family lore has it that she went to Australia but if she did she did not travel as Helen Mitchell according to ANESFHS. I have often wondered if Peter Mitchell lied about Helen going to Australia because of the illegitimate child. I say this because he never mentioned the older sister Marian (also illegitimate). The moral climate in Ireland at the time might have daunted him!

Charles did come to Ireland initially. However he was not a witness at Peter's marriage in 1877 and he was present at his father's death in Scotland in 1886. According to Poor Relief records he was also contributing to the family while Peter was not. It's very difficult to find family in Ireland. You must know the parish in which they lived. All we knew was that he came originally with Peter but there was a falling out between them and Charles left and was not heard from again.

Sorry to be so long winded. Thanks again for this information. I would be delighted to hear from you about how to correctly interpret the 1881 information you have given me.

Sincere thanks,

Tish
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

Alcluith
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:19 pm

Charles Mitchell

Post by Alcluith » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:25 pm

Trish

This could be your Charles

Dwelling: Ballochbuie Sawmills Bothy
Census Place: Crathie & Braemar, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203454 GRO Ref Volume 183 EnumDist 3 Page 9
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Alexander MC DOUGALL U 19 M Glenmuick, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodg (Head)
Occ: Labourer
Charles MITCHELL U 28 M Strathdon, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodg
Occ: Labourer
William COUTTS U 28 M Lumphanan, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodg
Occ: Wood Carter
Gordon ANDERSON U 23 M Tarland, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodg
Occ: Wood Carter
Alexander BEATTIE U 30 M Skene, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Lodg
Occ: Stoker
Burns, Quinn - Glasgow, N.Ireland
McLeod, Mackay, Nicholson, McNeil - Skye
James, McLeod, Sinclair, Smith - Renton
Davidson, Adie, Gibb - Aberdeen
Jolly, Wishart - Angus
Usher - Newcastle
Mullen, Roe - Dublin
O'Donnell - Ireland, Alexandria

MaryE
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm

Post by MaryE » Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:02 am

Tish

Strathdon is a small village – I’m not sure how this would compare with your townlands. Corriebreck would have been either a small farm or a cluster of cottages. It’s still there today but is now a ruin.

If you want to see it on a modern map go to http://uk.multimap.com . Put Strathdon into the search. It will come up at a scale of 1:100,000. Change the scale to 1: 25,000 – the scale is just above the map itself – then click on the north arrow just once. You should see Corriebreck on the left hand side of the map towards the top. It looks fairly isolated!

If you want to see it as it was in your family’s time, go to www.old-maps.co.uk . Put in 333691, 814808 – don’t forget the comma – then click on co-ordinate. You should find that Corriebreck comes up in the centre of your map. You can zoom in on it by clicking on 1 instead of the 3 that it loads on but you’ll actually get an even better view of it if you click on ‘enlarged view’ – just below the map. This opens a window which can take some time to download but it gives you just that section of the map and is really clear. You will have to scroll across and down a bit until you find Corriebreck but it’s very easy. As you can see, it looks as if it was one building but I suspect it was probably several small cottages with the inhabitants working the land around.

I’m sure that living at such close quarters in such a remote spot, it’s likely that all families with the same names are related so I’m pretty sure that the Mitchells and the Grassicks would be yours and the Coulls are probably linked as well, though maybe just through marriage.

I didn’t know Suzanne Walker’s site as this is the first time I’ve come across Grassicks but in looking for the whereabouts of Corriebreck I came across the following site - http://www.dlwalker.pwp.blueyonder.co.u ... /index.htm – which you might find interesting. It has some photos on as well and if you look at the map under ‘places’ you can see Corriebreck, though it’s not named, by relating it to the places on the two maps described above. Find Tornagawn then Corriebreck is the building in the clearing a couple of centimetres to the left of this.

Drew has found your Charles Mitchell b 1850 for you. Don't know how I missed him - perhaps I only put in 1850 +/– 2 rather than the +/– 3 I thought I'd used!

Mary

tishgibbons
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Post by tishgibbons » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:51 am

Drew and Mary!

Between you two I could be up all night tonight! Could this really be my Charles Mitchell after all this time. If that's the 1881 census Drew, the age is out by 2 or 3 years. Is that likely? Mind you the age given in the 1871 census for him didn't tally either. This is really exciting. Is there any way to be absolutely sure that this is the right Charles?

As to Corriebreck Mary I was in STrathdon last July. I saw where Greenstyle Cottages once stood. It's just a green field now with sheep grazing. Is that the same as Corriebreck? I also saw ruins at Bridge of Buchat but I don't know if that's where my g.g.g. grandmother Margaret Mitchell died. She was living there with her daughter Marian Wilson until she died in 1906. I will look at that site you mention.

Sincere thanks again to you both.

Regards,

Tish
Sincere thanks to you both for all of this. How
Researching Mitchell Grassick Bowman Farquharson Wilson Allanach Leys Coutts Gauld McNerney from Crathie and Braemar, Strathdon and Glenbuchat and who moved on to Aberdeen, Glasgow, Ireland, Australia, India, Canada.

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:56 am

Just a word of advice ,don't worry overly with ages being out on a census.
I have some doosies.On the 1871 census the couple are listed as 61 each.(this fits as they were both 20 when they married.)However 10 years later MR.is 63 and Mrs.is 72.I've seen some strange ones that can be very misleading in children also.
HK

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:11 am

tishgibbons wrote:Drew and Mary!

Between you two I could be up all night tonight! Could this really be my Charles Mitchell after all this time. If that's the 1881 census Drew, the age is out by 2 or 3 years. Is that likely? Mind you the age given in the 1871 census for him didn't tally either. This is really exciting. Is there any way to be absolutely sure that this is the right Charles?

As to Corriebreck Mary I was in STrathdon last July. I saw where Greenstyle Cottages once stood. It's just a green field now with sheep grazing. Is that the same as Corriebreck? I also saw ruins at Bridge of Buchat but I don't know if that's where my g.g.g. grandmother Margaret Mitchell died. She was living there with her daughter Marian Wilson until she died in 1906. I will look at that site you mention.

Sincere thanks again to you both.

Regards,

Tish
Sincere thanks to you both for all of this. How
ScotsOrigins at http://www.scotsorigins.com/ has a gazetteer based on all place names mentioned in the the 1881 census, searchable on any fragment of the place name, - in other words searching on "iebreck" would have also produced the result below, - and the only matching entry in the whole of Scotland is ....

Corriebreck STRATHDON Aberdeenshire 240/ {the number is the registration district number}.

Orraverybest

Davie