Where?? in Fife .....

[AndrewP]

The MR "Miscellaneous Records" are in NRH. They are on microfilm and are stored between the OPRs and the censuses. behind the Dome Search Room.

I have never had cause to consult them, so cannot comment any further about them.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[LesleyB]

Thanks Andrew

I've also just found this at NAS but suspect it may not be relevant as the Seceders are not mentioned by name:

CH3/794
Limekilns, Associate, (burgher) United Presbyterian, United Free, and Church of Scotland
Date 1805-1979

- if those records contain christenings and marriages for the Burgh Seceders? - it doesn't give any detail as to the content...

Best wishes
Lesley

[AndrewP]

Hi Lesley,

If you go back to the NAS index at http://www.dswebhosting.info/nas/ and insert CH3/794 into the Ref.No. box, it then returns a breakdown of the contents of CH3/794 in its constitutent parts CH3/794/1 to CH3/794/19.

CH3/794 Limekilns, Associate, (burgher) United Presbyterian, United Free, and Church of Scotland 1805-1979

CH3/794/1 Minutes 1805-1841
CH3/794/2 Minutes 1842-1878
CH3/794/3 Minutes 1878-89, Minutes 1894-5 (1878-1895)
CH3/794/4 Minutes 1900-1927
CH3/794/5 Minutes 1927-1939
CH3/794/6 Minutes 1939-1949
CH3/794/7 Minutes 1949-1963
CH3/794/8 Managers' minutes 1906-1950
CH3/794/9 Loose papers removed from CH3/794/8
CH3/794/10 Managers' minutes 1950-1969
CH3/794/11 Cash book 1829-1872
CH3/794/12 Baptismal register 1866-1931
CH3/794/13 Proclamation register 1932-1964
CH3/794/14 Alphabetical membership roll book 1928
CH3/794/15 Communion roll 1941-1948
CH3/794/16 Communion roll 1950-1953
CH3/794/17 Communion roll 1954-1958
CH3/794/18 Admission register Charlestown public school 1890-1956
CH3/794/19 Proclamation register 1965-1979

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[DavidWW]

.....snipped..............I see at:
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files/opr_app3.pdf
that GRO has within "Miscellaneous Records (MR) Containing Entries from Non-Conformist Churches Relevant to the Old Parish Records", LIMEKILNS (INVERKEITHING) BURGH SECEDERS Births 1782-1865

So does this mean I'd need to go to NRH to see them? (hey, maybe I can avoid the Dunfermline OPRs after all...? )

Can someone please clarify?

Best wishes
Lesley

Lesley

From the description I'd assume that this film is this secession church's equivalent of the Established Church OPRs.

It looks like, for some reason, the baptismal records are split between NAS and NRH.

If there is a microfilm then I wonder who produced it, - GSU/LDS, - as that could mean inclusion in the IGI or BVRI, - you need to have a look at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... t_fhlc.asp

Do a placename search on Limekilns and you'll get a hit relating to Blotter registers, 1782-1865 Burgh Suceders (Limekilns, Fifeshire) ...........

I need to go and cut the grass, so someone else can explain what blotter registers are ..... or has this question come up on TS before ?

David

[AndrewP]

A search of the LDS catalog for placename Limekilns gives two results.

• Blotter registers, 1782-1865
  
  Film 1068239 (item 2) - Baptisms, 1782-1832 Baptisms (United Association Congregation), 1832-1857
  
  Film 1068240 (item 1) - Baptisms (United Association Congregation), 1857-1865

On the IGI, these come under batch numbers:

• Limekilns (United Association Burgh Seceders)
  
  C191201 1782-1832 (793 births)
  C191202 1832-1865 (822 births)
  
  M191201 1788-1789 (6 marriages)
  M191202 1836 (1 marriage only)

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[DavidWW]

This is reposted from another thread:

Back in the days of the OPRs paper was a valuable source, - they'd be horrified to see how casually we treat paper today.

It was most often the case that a minister or session clerk would keep a rough copy of the details of proclamations, marriages, christenings etc., and then, every so often, write up the details in the actual OPR. Going off on a side-track, if you are unlucky the interval may have been long, - several months, - and his memory not just as good as he thought, so that his assumption that he would naturally recall the details that weren't originally written down turned out to be wrong!

The rough drafts sometimes survived and are generally known as scroll or blotter records; "blotter" from the terms used in counting houses to refer to a "waste" copy of a record book, or a rough draft of a letter. "Scroll" derives from a term used for duplicate records, for example where a minister kept a private record of events, i.e. not just a draft but a fair copy.

Apart from the above Aberdeen records, there are blotter records for Glasgow for 1815 to 1854; Barony for 1829 - 1854; Edinburgh St Cuthberts Births and Baptisms 1724 - 1850, and marriages 1744 - 1755 and 1768 - 1772; Edinburgh St Cuthberts again, scroll proclamations 1818 - 1855; Canongate kirk session treasurer's accounts including baptisms, marriage and mortcloth dues 1689 - 1693, plus Rev William Dun's private marriage register 1814 - 1822. And now can be added to this list this Limekilns secession church.

While not strictly speaking in the same category there are also records such as Jenat Thomson's Midwife Register of Births for Kilmarnock 1777 - 1829.

All of the above are in the custody of GROS at NRH.

David

[LesleyB]

Andrew and David

Thank you so much for all your input on this one.

Looks like either visit to Edinburgh is required, or I could order the films from my local LDS, but those would take a few weeks to arrive. I'll have a think about what seems the best option. The Christian Dick born 1801 who I mentioned earlier is under batch C191201 on the IGI so looks like they would be found on the LDS films.

Regarding blotter registers - would that mean that two versions of the registers would in some cases exist; the blotter register and the "official" OPR? And would it be the case that for some Parishes that ONLY the blotter survived?

Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

...snipped.........Regarding blotter registers - would that mean that two versions of the registers would in some cases exist; the blotter register and the "official" OPR?

Yes!

And would it be the case that for some Parishes that ONLY the blotter survived?

Yes, but I don't know of any such ..........

David

[LesleyB]

Ok, thanks David, just wondered.


best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Update on location:

Found some Dicks today in the OPRs after all:

Firstly, to the location in question:

Dunfermline OPR 424/14, Page 211, 1843
Robert Dick Clerk Wellwood Colliery & Marion White his wife had a son born 30th April 1843 baptised and named Robert Hall, Witnesses, James Spowart Esq. & Robert Muir

A quick google ( http://www.cmhrc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/esct.htm ) reveals one James Spowart Esq., Wellwood Colliery

This is interesting (well, it is to me, but I know its not going to excite everyone!) because to the east of Wellwood Colliery is - yes, David & Annette, the toffee apples are yours - Hawkiesfauld! So looks like this is very possibly what was meant on this particular occaision.

However...
...2 generations before that.... (and before life got complicated by the United Association Burgh Seceders )Robert Hall Dick's grandfather is having kids and this produces an interesting sequence of locations names given in 424/6 with Dick births:
1771: George Dick mason at Haggis-Hall...
1772: George Dick Mason in Haggishall...
1775: George Dick Mason in Limekills [sic]
1777: George Dick Mason Halkettshall
1779: George Dick Mason in Halketts Hall
1789: George Dick Mason in Halketts Hall

My guess would be that George Dick was in the same place all along - I reckon Haggis-Hall (honest, thats what it said) is Halketts Hall in er, Limekills.

So, BOTH places have Dick connections. So a toffee apple for you too Andrew! Oh, and I've to eat my words....

Best wishes and thanks to everyone for all your help,
Lesley

...now, those United Association Burgh Seceders ... they're next on the list....