Alexander Symon 1861-1871

[speleobat2]

Did you ever find a death cert. for his daughter Margaret? Was Alexander shown as deceased on that?

Also, have you contacted ANESFHS and asked them to research Alexander? Seems to me that they have quite a bit of information relating to Banffshire. I thought that we used to be able to search the unpublished MI's for Banffshire, but when I just checked their website, the MI search has been reworked and the unpublished ones aren't there that I could find.

Couple more straws to grasp anyway!

Carol

[Moray_Lass]

Hi Sarah
Fingers crossed that more Minutes with appear, but the blue ink/blue paper is hard to read, I admit - easier on the screen in NAS than on the printout. I tried immigration records last time I was signed up to Ancestry and I can't see him going anywhere. Unless I am not doing it right.

Hi Carol
Unfortunately Alexander doesn't even get a mention when Margaret dies, just a blank, I assume my Granda didn't know his name, possibly his mother didn't! Which was why my first trip to NAS was so good - I knew it was a Symon because of the name change but not a first name. No I haven't tried contacting ANESFHS, that is certainly something worth trying since I am so firmly stuck. I seriously doubt there will be an MI, most of mine ended up in pauper's graves, I think I have four gravestones in my tree going back to 1768 and none in my direct line.

I've been grasping at straws and trying deaths ??mon with no first name between 1865-1928 in case he was known by another name later (my great aunts first child was Alexander but known as Sam, and my Grandfather was indexed as Tymon which is why I couldn't find his birth for so long). He is just very good a hiding from census takers and undertakers!

[speleobat2]

Maggie,

Just did a quick search of Immigration and Travel on Ancestry and this one popped up:

Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923 Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923
Name: Alexr Symon
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Age: 41
Arrival Date: 12 Feb 1868
Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port: Liverpool
Ship: Great Britain
Nationality: English


It does say that his nationality was English, but you know how that goes!

Carol

[trish1]

Those in charge down under in the early days had the bad habit of equating British = English so I wouldn't discount this one - as the age seems close. The Vic records can be searched free of charge here
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/ ... earchid=23 I'm not even sure where ancestry get the "English" - they may be also equating British with English. On the index at PROV the ship is described as B (from a British Port)
SYMON ALEXR 41 FEB 1868 GREAT BRITAIN B 272 003

The fiche are available at PROV or various libraries in Australia but for unassisted immigrants they rarely show any more detail other than class of travel (cabin or steerage). If you paid your own fare no further detail seemed to be required. He seems to have been on the ship alone - so no wife or children at that stage.

I can see no sign of a marriage or death in Victoria - I've checked Symon Simon and Symonds as the surname ( death index to 1985) He could have moved to another state of Australia

Looking at the PROV records of departures it seems this person may have travelled to England, before coming back to Australia but could well be 2 different people.

SYMON A 41 GREAT BRITAIN AUG 1867 LIVERPOOL AUG 1867 006 - passenger on the same ship heading to Liverpool.
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/inde ... earchid=42

Trish

[grannysrock]

Hi Maggie

Sorry I just deleted my post because I had posted something irrelevant about a man that could not possibly be your ancestor as he was in Chicago in the 1860's. Apologogies to anyone who read it !
Sally not fully awake !

[Moray_Lass]

Oh My, A Lead!

Many thanks Carol and Trish!

I have just spent the last couple of hours trolling around any Australian sites I could find trying to find a death entry with no luck, but my complete lack of knowledge of the system down there could be to blame. I remember someone mentioning the bad situation with census, because that would be the a great help pinning him down as being born in Scotland if not the area. I expanded the immigration/emigration searches and there might to two or more Alex Symon's moving around, but I can't find the initial Outgoing trip if he went back in Aug 1867. And no entry in assisted passages.

Incoming
Family Name First Name Age Mon Year Ship Port Fiche Page
SYMON ALEX 26 AUG 1867 TARARUA N 078 001
SYMON ALEXR 41 FEB 1868 GB B 272 003
SYMON A 37 NOV 1887 TE ANAU N 218 002

Outgoing
Family Given Age Ship month year Destination Ref Ref Page
SYMON ALEXR 23 HELLESPONT II JAN 1854 SYDNEY JAN 1854 006
SYMON A 41 GB AUG 1867 LIVERPOOL AUG 1867 006
SYMON A 31 GOTHENBURG FEB 1868 BLUFF OTAGO
CANTERBURY
WELLINGTON FEB 1868 001

Just need to figure out how to prove/disprove this guy. I know mine was definitely in Newmills in 1863, all I know is a letter in 1865, which could have come from abroad.

Thanks very much for finding this possiblity.

[trish1]

Hi Maggie

There is no census data from Australia post 1841 - very sad - until 2000 all personal records were destroyed & only summaries remain. There are electoral rolls but very little before 1901 (Federation). Prior to that date there were land holding type restrictions on who could vote - although until the 1970s any British subject could automatically get included on the rolls if they met any other requirements. I've looked at the online rolls - and the only alex is a James Robert Alexander Symon in NSW on the rolls 1930 (earliest available in NSW) to 1943. Obviously not your man.

The name Symon is very rare in most Australian BDMs. NSW the most populous state has online records - marriages to 1959 and deaths to 1979
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index ... ent=births 1850-1950 there are 8 Symon deaths (no alex). Symons and Simons are quite common. Civil registration had started in all states by 1863 so if he died in Oz under the name Alexander Symon it should be registered somewhere.

Victoria I have checked. WA is here http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pi ... fault.aspx and Qld here https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m

I don't have access to Tasmania post 1900 & SA has virtually no records online - both are relatively close to Victoria so possibles.
Tasmanian archives have some online information - http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/ - the Colonial data base is based on their earl BDMs but only goes to 1900.

The online newspapers mentioned in a number of posts are giving many of us some wonderful results so you could try a search on them. I find the advanced search useful as you can limit the dates and the states. The OCR is not spectacular so some inventive searching is sometimes needed.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

He certainly isn't recorded as a death in Victoria under the name Alex Symon (or similar) but always possible that he used a different name.

Trish

Edit The reason I thought the 1867/68 trips may be the same person was because of the age and the ship name. There is no birth registered in Australia for the right time frame to be the Mr A Symon in the 1867 trip, so it is likely one must have arrived from somewhere (perhaps as a Mr Symon) although the baptism registers for the time of birth 1826-1828 are somewhat flimsy (to be polite about same). They could obviously be 2 separate people.

[speleobat2]

Maggie,

Always glad to help, but Trish is doing the legwork on this one. I was just taking an airconditioning break yesterday when I found the listing on Ancestry. The tree man came in the morning and cut down four large pine trees that the pine bark beetles had killed near our house. We are doing the clean up to save money and it's hot here--90 degrees F or more every day!

Good hunting!

Carol

[trish1]

Maggie,

Always glad to help, but Trish is doing the legwork on this one. I was just taking an airconditioning break yesterday when I found the listing on Ancestry. The tree man came in the morning and cut down four large pine trees that the pine bark beetles had killed near our house. We are doing the clean up to save money and it's hot here--90 degrees F or more every day!

Good hunting!

Carol

Hi Carol - I didn't even think to look in Australia until I saw your post, and I am not finding very much - it was an interesting find you made - ancestry has been collecting more and more on Australia over the past year - seems to be branching into states other than NSW.

I wish it was 90F here - I am not a fan of winter (and it never gets lower than about 40F).

Trish

[Moray_Lass]

Thanks Trish for all your help.

I can rule out WA and Qld too - I was going round in circles when I tried to check them this morning but managed it this time - there are Symon/Simon and the other spellings but no Alexander or any variation of that he might have used (like Aleck, Sandy, Sanny etc.). For some reason I must have stumbled onto the Australian newspaper website before - long before I knew I had an Alexander Symon in my tree, because I recognize the story of an Alex Symons trial for killing someone on a ship. And Sir Joshua Symon. But I am not turning up anything I can claim as my Alex. I have just searched every index Tasmania have online - no Alexander's there either. He could still be slipping through the cracks but he is hiding wherever he is. And I think your 1867/8 Alexander is perfectly sensible, I just need to find the paperwork to prove it. My only qualm is his birthday was in Dec, so the age (wrong though it may be) should have gone up a year. I'll just have to think about what to try next.

I might as well try deaths in England next, just to rule that out...

But thanks again

[speleobat2]

Trish,

I'm not a fan of winter either. That's why we moved south when we retired, but this is too hot, too early. Usually we don't see prolonged heat waves until August. Will be interesting to see what the rest of the summer is like. I may be toast by September...

Maggie,

Oh, those little scraps of papers that we all need to get our hands on to prove up our relatives...I have half a dozen of them that I'm looking for myself and may never find!

Carol

[trish1]

Had a friend check some South Australian indexes (marriages and deaths to 1916) with no success - whoever that 1868 traveller was - he is keeping a low profile

Trish

[Moray_Lass]

Thanks very much Trish.

I have just checked the NZ BMD from your other post under Australia/New Zealand, found an Alexander Symon death but he would have been born 1852, he had 8 of a family with his wife starting in 1879, haven't found a marriage or birth for him there. So it looks like mine didn't die there either. This is getting like Mary Thomson's mother - who wasn't born and didn't die, on paper. Still have to check English BMD...

My main need in tracing him, besides being a completist and to see if he has more family, is hoping it will say whether his parents are alive/dead and if his father was a mason (something Scottish records would do but other don't?). I've a fairly good fit in a James Symon, mason in Rothiemay with family 1841, 51, 61, but James Symon's are hardly rare here.

[trish1]

I was at the library today so I checked the fiche for the immigrants to Melbourne (the records for folks leaving are on film and only available at PROV I think)

They are very old disorganised fiche & whoever scanned the documents seems to have had 5 minutes training but I did find the record. He is listed as 41 single, labourer, English (and there are options for English, Scotch [sic], Irish) and intending to settle in Melbourne. master was John Gray, left 13 Dec 1867 with 480 statute adults, estimated trip 90 days.

I have 2 not very legible scans if you would like same.

Trish

[Moray_Lass]

Trish you really are an angel

I will send you a pm, and thank you very much for going to that trouble for me. At the very least I can try and rule him out if I can find a birth in England that matches.

Was thinking last night in bed That wasn't Alistair interchangable with Alexander - have to check that, because if it was I haven't looked for that variation in deaths. I also discovered last night (before bed) that my last three credit have expired on SP - I have never have had any expire before, so everything is on hold until I get to the library Friday.