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garydevine1995 · Post by **garydevine1995** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:30 pm

it has just came to my attention that my devine family arent even on the 1861 census. i have tryed james devine and divine with other names to see who would be in the family at the time and nothing. they would have all been in Hamilton and my 2x great grandfather would have been 2 years old at the time and his half sister would be there too heres what should be there which isnt :

James Devine 32c
Mary Devine/Mullen 31c
John Devine 2
1st marriage children:
Maria Devine 18
Bridget Devine 16
Rose/a Devine 14

and mary mullens children before james and her marriage they shoudl bear the name Logan:

perhaps

James Logan
Sarah Logan
Mary Logan

i dont no if the Logans would take the name devine. there might be a catherine at the age of 10 or 11 but i dotn no if she died young.

could you help me find them. i find it strange

Post by **Tracey** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:21 pm

If you think they may all be together i, when i cant find someone, search under a less obvious name so, there is a 16 year old Bridget in Glasgow

861 DEVINE BRIDGET 16 CLYDE GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 025/00 010

Have you discounted this ?

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:41 pm

Hi Tracey,
Good thought, but that one looks to be the daughter of Edward and Mary. The children of the first marriage would have been plenty old enough to be elsewhere.

"Rosan Devine", age 14, born Hamilton, is a House Servant in Cardross, in the household of Thomas & Mary Miller

All the best,
Sarah

garydevine1995 · Post by **garydevine1995** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:45 pm

yeah i found a death cert in hamilton for that same bridget so it isnt her and i never thought of looking for others like that and the rosan devine one looks like her although she wasnt born hamilton she was born in ireland but would have been to young to remember where i think but i still find weird how they still arent in hamilton and the thought of james letting his 14 year old daughter be a sevant is to me quite bad and what the logan children i dont no where they could be either dont no if they all died young or so

alex19canteen · Post by **alex19canteen** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:47 pm

There's a James 31 and a John 3 in Milton, this was a free search and I don't know if they were together.

garydevine1995 · Post by **garydevine1995** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:53 pm

i havent found anything at all to say the family had moved to milton or any where outside of hamilton the family where in hamilton 1847-1984 and james and mary are in the 71 81 and 91 census and they are in hamilton and where is cardross ?

alex19canteen · Post by **alex19canteen** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:57 pm

garydevine1995 wrote:i havent found anything at all to say the family had moved to milton or any where outside of hamilton the family where in hamilton 1847-1984 and james and mary are in the 71 81 and 91 census and they are in hamilton and where is cardross ?

Depends on their job, mine were coalminers in Ayrshire and couldn't find them anywhere, I found them working in a mine in Lanark, then in the next census back in Ayrshire.

garydevine1995 · Post by **garydevine1995** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:02 pm

yeah mines were all coal miners too but hamilton had many mines, mihgt sound stupid but mary and james both would have had strong irish accents so maybe them saying devine would be put down wrong. after sitting myself for about an hour saying devine out loud in an a strong "irish" accent, the most i got was devan, devin, deven lol but thats just me

Post by **Tracey** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:23 pm

garydevine1995 wrote: mihgt sound stupid but mary and james both would have had strong irish accents so maybe them saying devine would be put down wrong.

Nope, i have a McHgun that seems to have been heard as Mucklegunn.
Shielfel = Sheffield..............ect

Sarah, i forgot you must know this family increadibly well by now !

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:23 pm

and the thought of james letting his 14 year old daughter be a sevant is to me quite bad

Gary - it is 1861. It is important to see these things and understand them IN CONTEXT of the times. Unless James was quite well-off, it would have been quite normal for his children to have left home and to be working by their early teens, possibly sending money home to help the family.

There are children much younger than this at this time (e.g under 10 years old) working long hours in factories, selling things on city streets, working down mines, on farms, up chimneys and in a whole host of other occupations we would think completley unsuitable for a child in this country today. Going to work as a servant was a very typical pattern for girls and must have been in some ways a better job than many others, but it would still have involved hard work, long hours and the conditions must very much have depended on the household you worked for - work might have been OK, or might have been hell on earth.... and of course, no union to go and get advice or support from either!

See also:
http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/scotlandsh ... /index.asp
and
http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/haynin/haynin1001.htm
and
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=80802
and
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5apm ... 60&f=false

Cardross is near (west of) Dumbarton.

TalkingScot.com

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