How many John Duncan's can a girl deal with?.....

Birth, Marriage, Death

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Jack
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Paisley

Possible Duncan family

Post by Jack » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:38 am

Hi again Carol,
I did manage a quick look at Agnes ERSKINE's 1863 record to see if hubby John DUNCAN's parents were given - but alas no.
(hopefully i'll get full details of the application in the next week or so)
But all is not lost - i think James MAY have had some siblings; and one (at least) lived beyond 1855. Mary still living 1881.
Her DC should have her parents (if known...)
Hope Margery lives beyond 1855 too because i can't see Mathew or George in Paisley 1851. Nor (mother?) Mary CURRIE.
The reason i think Mary (DUNCAN) GREY is John DUNCAN's sister is because of the nephew William DUNCAN with her in 1881.
He's near the right age for John & Agnes ERSKINE's son William Knox DUNCAN b1864, and may be with her in 1871?
Also hope William remained a compositor - shouldn't be too many William DUNCANs with that occupation.
--
1841 cens 573 Ed 3 p 11 (Martyrs)
16 Broomlands Street, Paisley.
Mary CURRIE, 40, ------------b Ireland
Marjarie DUNCAN, 18, throster, cotton factory, b Ireland [sic]
Mary DUNCAN, 15, throster, cotton factory, b RFW
Mathew DUNCAN, 14, throster, cotton factory, b RFW
George DUNCAN, 13, ----------------------------- b RFW
--
1851 cens 573-1 (460) Ed 4 p 5 (Martyrs)
2 East Lane, Paisley.
William GREY, head, marr, 27, hand loom weaver, cotton, b Paisley, RFW
Mary DUNCAN, wife, marr, 25, ------------------- b Paisley, RFW
Mary GREY, daur, 2mos, -------------------------- b Paisley, RFW
Archibald GREY, father, widower, 62, Chelsea Pensioner, b Glasgow, LKS
Margery DUNCAN, sis-in-law, u/m 27, thread factory worker, b Paisley, RFW [sic]
--
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 78 p 1 (Barony - Anderston)
49 Richard Street.
William GREY, head, marr, 38, cotton weaver, Paisley, RFW
Mary GREY, wife, marr, 36, ----------------Paisley, RFW
Mary GREY, daur, 10, scholar, Paisley, RFW
Elizabeth GREY, daur, 8, scholar, Paisley, RFW
Janet GREY, daur, 6, ---------------Paisley, RFW
Archibald GREY, son, 4, ----------Paisley, RFW
Jean GREY, daur, 2, --------------Paisley, RFW
--
1881 Census Place: Paisley High Church, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 15 Sir Michael St
Source: FHL Film 0203581 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 9 Page 10
Mary GRAY W 57 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head
Mary GRAY U 28 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur
Elizabeth GRAY U 26 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Power Loom Weaver
Archibald GRAY U 24 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Brassmoulder
Jane GRAY U 21 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Thread Mill Worker
William GRAY U 19 M Partick, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Shoemaker
William DUNCAN U 15 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Nephew Occ: Compositor Apprentice
--
Please remember all this is just guesswork!
Jack
Last edited by Jack on Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

erskines et al

Post by Carol Duncan » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:00 am

Hi Jack,

Thanks again, I'll start digging through it and see if it all fits.

By 'James' - I'm assuming you've made a typo and mean John. Agnes Erskine's husband was John Duncan. I'm also not sure who Margery is ... I'm getting a little confused (which is quite easy, really)!

This is what I THINK I know so far:


1. John1 Duncan was born Abt. 1820 in Ireland, and died 18 Dec 1866 in 14 McAlpine Street, Glasgow, Scotland1. He married Agnes Erskine2 30 Dec 1845 in High Church, Renfrew, Paisley, Scotland, daughter of Matthew Erskine and Elisabeth Knox. She was born 19 May 1824 in High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland, and died 07 Nov 1866 in 14 McAlpine Street, Glasgow, Scotland3.

Children of John Duncan and Agnes Erskine are:

1 i. Mathew Duncan, born Abt. 1846 in Paisley
2 ii. John Erskine Duncan, born 30 Oct 1848 in George Street, High Parish, Paisley, Scotland; died 28 Apr 1935 in 38 Red Lion Street, Balmain South, NSW, Australia.
3 iii. James Erskine Duncan, born 02 Nov 1849 in Glasgow, Lanark,
4 iv. Agnes Duncan, born 10 Apr 1852 in Glasgow, Lanark
5 v. George Resk Duncan, born 04 Aug 1854 in Glasgow, Lanark
6 vi. Elizabeth Duncan, born 26 Aug 1856 in High Church, Glasgow,
7 vii. Mary Duncan, born 26 Aug 1856 in High Church, Glasgow,
8 viii. David Duncan, born 02 Aug 1857 in High Church, Glasgow,
9 ix. Edward Cook Duncan, born 02 Aug 1857 in High Church,
10 x. Daniel Duncan, born 11 Dec 1858 in Anderston, Glasgow,
11 xi. Alexander Knox Duncan, born 03 Nov 1862 in Anderston,
12 xii. William Knox Duncan, born 12 Oct 1864 in Clyde, Glasgow,


You've been very, very kind to me ... please let me know if I need to reimburse any expenses.

Cheers,

Carol

Jack
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Paisley

Margery Duncan etc

Post by Jack » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:33 pm

Hi Carol,
Yes it was a typo as James (i think i was near sleeping!). I've now corrected Agnes' hubby to John DUNCAN.
Margery is Mary DUNCAN's sister; she was the sister-in-law of William GREY in 1851.

I've presumed (never wise, but for now anyway) that it was John DUNCAN's family at 16 Broomlands St in 1841.
Possible mother Mary CURRIE, and 4 children (John being elsewhere for some reason).
(censuses, more so earlier ones, often have a woman's maiden name instead of her married one)
--
Everything really hinges on the 15yr old William DUNCAN with aunt Mary (Duncan) GRAY in 1881
being the son of John DUNCAN & Agnes ERSKINE.
And if he IS, then it would appear that Margery, Mary, Mathew, & George are John DUNCAN's younger siblings.
So if they were then Mary's DC will hopefully have her parents' names - which should normally also be John's.
--
Jack
ps, the is the only suitable John DUNCAN i can see in Paisley 1841 - and always the chance RFW was an error.
Sadly no occupation, and we can't say for certain how Agnes & John were related; possibly just a different John Duncan.
1841 cens 573 Ed 11 p 19 (High)
44 George Street, Paisley.
Agnes DUNCAN, 55, cotton winder, b RFW
John DUNCAN, 20, --------------------b RFW [sic]
--

Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

Post by Carol Duncan » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:45 am

Hi Jack,

I am so grateful to you for your assistance! Getting a handle on things from the other side of the world can be tricky at times and its through the generosity of people like yourself and the others on TalkingScot who responded that stalled research, like mine, often gets a leg up!

Thanks again, I am just thrilled to have made so much progress! I will continue to try and confirm the address or more information about William and see how I go.

Carol :)

Jack
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Paisley

Post by Jack » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:19 pm

Hi Carol,
You already have most of these censuses i know; it's just to keep them all together!
I'm now 99% sure that Mary (DUNCAN) GRAY is the sister of your GGG-GF John DUNCAN; she died in Paisley 1891.
I'd guess that the parents, Mathew DUNCAN & Mary CURRIE, married in Ireland abt 1820,
and children John & Margery were born there.
The family moved to Paisley by abt 1825, where the children Mary, Mathew, George were then born.
When Mary's brother John, and sis-in-law Agnes ERSKINE, died in 1866 she took in their youngest child - 2yr old William DUNCAN.
--
1841 cens 573 Ed 3 p 11 (Martyrs)
16 Broomlands Street, Paisley.
Mary CURRIE, 40, ------------b Ireland
Marjarie DUNCAN, 18, throster, cotton factory, b Ireland [sic]
Mary DUNCAN, 15, throster, cotton factory, b RFW
Mathew DUNCAN, 14, throster, cotton factory, b RFW
George DUNCAN, 13, ----------------------------- b RFW
--
1851 cens 573-1 (460) Ed 4 p 5 (Martyrs)
2 East Lane, Paisley.
William GREY, head, marr, 27, hand loom weaver, cotton, b Paisley, RFW
Mary DUNCAN, wife, marr, 25, ------------------- b Paisley, RFW
Mary GREY, daur, 2mos, -------------------------- b Paisley, RFW
Archibald GREY, father, widower, 62, Chelsea Pensioner, b Glasgow, LKS
Margery DUNCAN, sis-in-law, u/m 27, thread factory worker, b Paisley, RFW [sic]
--
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 78 p 1 (Barony - Anderston)
49 Richard Street.
William GREY, head, marr, 38, cotton weaver, Paisley, RFW
Mary GREY, wife, marr, 36, ----------------Paisley, RFW
Mary GREY, daur, 10, scholar, Paisley, RFW
Elizabeth GREY, daur, 8, scholar, Paisley, RFW
Janet GREY, daur, 6, ---------------Paisley, RFW
Archibald GREY, son, 4, ----------Paisley, RFW
Jean GREY, daur, 2, --------------Paisley, RFW
--
1871 cens 573-1 Ed 15 p 6 (High)
14 Canal Street, Paisley.
William GRAY, head, marr, 46, woollen weaver, b Paisley, RFW
Mary GRAY, wife, marr, 46, housekeeper, b Paisley, RFW
Mary GRAY, daur, 12 [sic], mill worker, b Paisley, RFW [meant to be 22?]
Elizabeth GRAY, daur, 18, mill worker, b Paisley, RFW
Jenat GRAY, daur, 16, mill worker, b Paisley, RFW
Archibald GRAY, son, 14, scholar, b Paisley, RFW
Jean GRAY, daur, 11, scholar, b Paisley, RFW
William GRAY, son, 9, scholar, b Paisley, RFW [sic]
William DUNCAN, nephew, 6, scholar, b Glasgow.
--
1881 Census Place: Paisley High Church, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 15 Sir Michael St.
Source: FHL Film 0203581 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 9 Page 10
Mary GRAY W 57 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head
Mary GRAY U 28 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur
Elizabeth GRAY U 26 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Power Loom Weaver
Archibald GRAY U 24 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Brassmoulder
Jane GRAY U 21 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Thread Mill Worker
William GRAY U 19 M Partick, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Shoemaker
William DUNCAN U 15 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Nephew Occ: Compositor Apprentice
--
1891 cens 573 Ed 9 p 14 (High)
71 Canal Street, Paisley.
Mary GRAY, head, widow, 66, housekeeper, b Paisley, RFW
Janet GRAY, daur, u/m 28, threadmill worker, b Paisley, RFW
Jane GRAY, daur, u/m 27, threadmill worker, b Paisley, RFW
William GRAY, son, u/m 25, shoemaker, b Partick, LKS
William DUNCAN, nephew, u/m 23, printer's compositor, b Glasgow, LKS
Mary GALLOWAY, gr-daur, 6, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
--
Mary (DUNCAN) GRAY (as aged 62) dies 7 Jun 1891 at 71 Canal St.
William DUNCAN (29) marries Annie McCONNACHIE (26) on 5 Dec 1895 in Paisley.
Occupation - printer's compositor, and his parents - John DUNCAN, spirit merchant & Agnes ERSKINE.
--
Ages are a wee bit inconsistent at times - but that's not unusual.
You may possibly have a few "GRAY" cousins out there too somewhere...
but what became of the other DUNCAN children Margery, Mathew, & George is anyone's guess.
Also the other 5 orphaned DUNCAN children after 1866.
Jack

Jack
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Paisley

Post by Jack » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:15 pm

Hi Carol, this might be Matthew, one of the orphaned children?

MATTHEW DUNCAN
AGNES LEGGAT
Marriage: 28 MAR 1873 Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland

1881 Census Place: Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 41 Main Street
Source: FHL Film 0203621 GRO Ref Volume 628 EnumDist 18 Page 4
Matthew DUNCAN M 34 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Hammerman
Agnes DUNCAN M 32 F Wishaw, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
James B. LEGGAT U 29 M Wishaw, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: House Painter
--
I think this is sister Agnes - she married a P. FARQUHAR on 4 AUG 1876 at Paisley.
Witnesses were Matthew Duncan & M. Gray - possibly Agnes' cousin Mary?

1871 cens 573-1 Ed 23 p 18 (High)
17 John Street, Paisley.
Margaret BISSLAND, head, widow, 48, housekeeper, b Kilbirnie, AYR
Margaret BISSLAND, daur, u/m 19, mill worker, b Paisley, RFW
Robert BISSLAND, son, u/m 17, measurer, b Paisley, RFW
Janet BISSLAND, daur, 15, mill worker, b Paisley, RFW
William BISSLAND, son, 13, draper, b Paisley, RFW
John BISSLAND, 8 school, b Paisley, RFW
AGNES DUNCAN, lodger, u/m 18, mill worker, b Glasgow, LKS
--
But where Agnes (now Farquhar) is in 1881 is a wee bit of a mystery!

Jack

Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

Post by Carol Duncan » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:35 pm

Hi Jack,

Goodness me, you've been able to find a lot.

I've always hoped that maybe one or two of the children might have also come to Australia after John did in 1883 (wife Agnes and 3 children followed in 1884). I guess it's another avenue for me to consider ...

That census information certainly seems to fit. It's funny, the naming patterns and all. Another of the Australian-born children married a Farquhar, and the name Agnes survived right down to my Aunt who died in August last year! Then there's the Johns of course ....

Thanks Jack!

You're a wonderful and generous help!

Carol.

dannyboy3033
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: Duncans, McConnells, Erskines ...

Post by dannyboy3033 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:52 am

Carol,

Here's a picture of Sharps Lane in case you haven't seen it before.

http://ocp.hul.harvard.edu/dl/immigration/HUAM312956soc

All the best,

Dan


Carol Duncan wrote:Hi Jack,

You're a wonder! I hope you have access to resources that isn't costing you anything!

Yes, that's them! You're amazing. 12 Sharps Lane is the address on Agnes's marriage certificate and her father is listed as a blacksmith.

I've been trying to figure out where the McVey/McVie name comes into the line.

Jack, if it has cost you anything to assist me, please let me know so I can reimburse you.

Cheers,

Carol

(It's quiet now, my boys have gone to bed!)

carolduncan
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:24 am

Re: How many John Duncan's can a girl deal with?.....

Post by carolduncan » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:35 am

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the link to the photo of Sharps Lane.

Carol

margienz
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:12 pm

Re: How many John Duncan's can a girl deal with?.....

Post by margienz » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:50 pm

Hello,
I have recently joined TalkingScot and have read your postings with great interest. I am a descent of Matthew Erskine and Elizabeth Knox daughter Elizabeth DOB 29 March 1832. Elizabeth married Peter McLean in 1854. I have limited information and would like to trace both the parents of Matthew Erskine, Elizabeth Knox and Peter McLean. If you have any information about them I would be really delighted.

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