Born but not Registered after 1855?.....

[AndrewP]

With a bit of time and patience, the IGI can be used to list the Elizabeths born in Greenock in the appropriate years. Similarly to the method I used for the posting further up on this thread, on the IGI search page fill in the criteria: first name = Elizabeth, range = exact year, year = 1860, region = British Isles, batch = C115641. This can be repeated changing the year as required.

The amount of Elizabeth (and variations) bon in the years 1855 to 1861 in Greenock are:
1855 = 75
1856 = 80
1857 = 95
1858 = 81
1859 = 71
1860 = 78
1861 = 77
How do you work out which ones to keep or discard? Using John's logic above, you can find the ones with no father listed and consider them as the first round of possibilities. If a father is listed, but so far you don't know his name, then it is going to be very difficult to narrow the list down, unless you have the time and patience to do an IGI search for marriages of the parents listed, and discount the ones already married. A long slog, if you have the patience to do it at all, considering it will leave you a list still to be narrowed down somehow.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[Jack]

Hi all,

Allison, i know you have the 1841 for Jean - it's only to keep them together; sorry no more details just now.

There is an Alex McKELLAR 20, a smith, living at Crawford St. 1841 cens 564 Ed 12 p 1 (Greenock North). But possibly a coincidence.
--
1841 cens 564 Ed 39 p 1 (Greenock St Andrew)
Vennel
Jean McKELLAR 22, independant, b RFW
Daniel McKELLAR 2, ------ b RFW
--
1851 cens 564- (435) Ed 33 p 6 (Greenock)
Robina McKELLAR 40
Donald McKELLAR 12
Alexander McKELLAR 8
Joseph GILLESPIE 40
--
Jack
--
ps; do you know what happened to Daniel / Donald & Alexander after the 1871 census?

[Allison]

Wow! You people are full of suggestions!!

Let's start off with Jean, Daniel/Donald and Alexander Jr. According to the records I have Jean and Alexander McKellar Sr. married in 1838 and by 1840 had Daniel aka Donald. Alexander Jr. came along in 1843 and he is shown in the 1851 census along with Jean aka Robina (one of her daughters by Daniel McFadyen whom Jean married in 1891 was named Robina--I still have yet to find out where this name came from). The 1851 census lists Jean aka Robina as with Daniel and Alexander and a visitor/lodger at the residence of where Joseph Gillespie was resident. (Don't ask me how one could be a visitor and a lodger at the same time.)

After Elizabeth's second husband, Daniel McFadyen, died in the 191.?, Elizabeth emigrated to Toronto, Ontario, Canada and her Ontario death certificate doesn't provide any new information as her daughter Danetta didn't seem to have any information about her mother's family at all.

I can provide a little information after 1871 courtesy of others and the research I did in Greenock when I was there this past May. Alexander Sr. seems to have died at sea in the lat 1850's, Daniel/Donald appears to have died in the late 1880's, early 1890's and I still don't know what when Alexander Jr. died. Mary, Elizabeth's sister, was moved to Devon with her husand, James Martin for a while but then moved back to Scotland and was present when her mother, Jean, died in 1884. I haven't done the work yet to find out when James and Mary died. I know they are on the 1881 census in Tontes, England and they had children so there is another line to look at.

In 1886 Elizabeth filed a poor relief application which states her mother was Jean/Janet Gillespie and her father was Joseph Gillespie. In her 1991 marriage certificate to Daniel McFadyen she reaffirms that her mother is Jean Gillespie ms. McDougall as she did in the 1876 marriage certificate to William Brown. Mary Gillespie, also in her marriage certificate, which I looked at this past May also states that her mother is Jean Gillespie and her father is Joseph Gillespie.

Hopefully that answers a few more questions. I did say this was a convulated history!!??javascript:emoticon(':roll:')
Rolling Eyes

Allison

[Andy]

If he died in the late 1880's where is Daniel/Donald in 1881?

Funnily enough again at Nicholson Street there is the following Alexander McKellar with a first daughter named Jane:

Dwelling: 13 Nicolson St
Census Place: West Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203573 GRO Ref Volume 564-3 EnumDist 4 Page 14
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John CAMPBELL W 63 M Kilfinan, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Master Blacksmith Emp 2 Men
Alexander MC KELLAR 40 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son In Law
Occ: Master Mariner
Jane H. MC KELLAR 16 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Grand Daur
Jessie MC KELLAR 14 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Grand Daur
Alexandrina MC KELLAR 12 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Grand Daur

I'm beginning to suspect a major mix up on families here!

Alexander McKellar's wife, Jane McDougal died at 24 East Shaw Street in 1884 as reported by daughter Mary Martin who lived in Inverkip Street.

Problem is that at 24 East Shaw Street in 1881 we find:

Dwelling: 24 E Shaw St
Census Place: West Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203573 GRO Ref Volume 564-3 EnumDist 11 Page 4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James MC KELLER U 44 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Head Son
Occ: Labourer Boat Yard
Mary MC KELLAR W 67 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Mother

Dwelling: 24 E Shaw St
Census Place: West Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203573 GRO Ref Volume 564-3 EnumDist 11 Page 4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Duncan MC KELLAR M 41 M Islay, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Labourer Boat Yard
Janet MC KELLAR M 42 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Robert MC KELLAR U 17 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Labourer Foundry
Jessie MC KELLAR U 18 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Servant

AND

Dwelling: 24 E Shaw St
Census Place: West Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203573 GRO Ref Volume 564-3 EnumDist 11 Page 5
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas GILLESPIE M 40 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Quay Labourer
Rosann GILLESPIE M 32 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Mark GILLESPIE U 14 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: News Boy
John GILLESPIE U 9 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son
Agness GILLESPIE U 1 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Francis GILLESPIE U 1 m M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son

Common names I know but at the same address?!

East Shaw Street leads onto Inverkip Street so Jane and Mary Martin were talking range from each other.

But where is Alexander, Donald/Daniel and Mary Martin in 1881?

This lot seem very familiar, have I worked on them before?

Mary Gillespie's husband was a sailor, James Martin born abt 1856. No sign of him either.

[Allison]

Yes, you have worked on this family before--back in March or April of this year when I was trying to figure out Joseph Gillespie and Jean in a different conversation.

Mary and her husband, James, in 1881 were in Totnes, Devon where he is shown on the census as a bookseller. At some point after that and prior to 1884 Mary and James moved back to Greenock.

In 1863 Alexander Jr. (age 19) married Susan McMonagle (age19) in Greenock but I haven't done the research yet to find out where he was in 1881. However, I do have an 1891 Census from London which shows an "Alexander McKellar, Widower, aged 49, Boatbuilder, born in Scotland with a number of daughters living with him. I have tracked down on the IGI one daughter named Julia born in 1865 in Glasgow but I just found her today as I was trying something else during a break at work and she isn't listed on the 1891 census so maybe this isn't the proper Alexander McKellar.

As for Daniel/Donald, I haven't had a chance to look for him either. Maybe this evening, if it isn't too hot upstairs in my home, I'll sit in front of the computer and see what I can find.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm amazed!

Allison

[Andy]

It would seem Alexander was a sailor. From 1881:

Dwelling: 97 Houston St
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203681 GRO Ref Volume 644-14 EnumDist 9 Page 11
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Susan MC KELLAR M 36 F West Parish Greenock
Rel: Head
Occ: Firemans Wife Sea

No sign of Julia because she died in Greenock in 1868

[Andy]

I rechecked the stuff from April. The Donald who died in Smithstone (Gourock) in 1896 was the unmarried son of Alexander and Jean McDougall his usual address was 24 East Shaw Street so I really suspect that the 1881 enumerator was on more than tea while doing the rounds! Donald was also in Smithstone in 1891, he was epileptic.

The Greenock Telegraph states that Donald's brother, Alex, lived in Glasgow in 1896 so it's doubtful that Alex (a stoker on a steamer) was the boatbuilder in London.

[Allison]

I was wondering if it was the right Susan when I looked at the 1881 census. I was trying to figure out what fireman's wife sea meant. As for Daniel/Donald, I couldn't find a marriage for him, but that doesn't mean anything in this family! However, there are at least two Daniel's of the right age in the 1891 census and they are both married, one in Paisley and one in Greenock and then there is a Donald. So when I get home this evening, I'll do another search and see what I can find to narrow down the possibilities.

I'm still trying to figure out how Donald got missed in the 1881 census? Could he have been at sea possibly? The enumerator on more than tea--well if he is anything like my grandfather was, my father and my husband, it would be a good single malt scotch and probably a wee drop at each house for sustenance.

Still haven't been able to figure out how Elizabeth wasn't registered, though. That's still a puzzle.

Allison