Joseph.....

[DavidWW]

dear david, you said in your reply that there is no cross reference between the birth and the new certificate, does that mean the child has no way of tracing his natural roots.? yours emma

I might be wrong on this but I'm sure the natural parents are still recorded on the adoption certificate. I think what David is saying that it is not cross referenced back to the actual birth certificate like it is in England.

Best of luck, I hope you find the certificate you are looking for.

See edit to my original reply.

The birth parents are only shown on the original birth register entry. The new entry in the birth register refers only to the adopting parents, and it's only the entry in the closed Register of Adoptions that will cross reference back to the original birth register entry.

Davie

[DavidWW]

dear david, you said in your reply that there is no cross reference between the birth and the new certificate, does that mean the child has no way of tracing his natural roots.? yours emma

Emma

Sorry if I gave that impression. The adopted child (either 15+, or 18+, - can't recall for the moment) is allowed access to the information in the Register of Adoptions once they have proved their identity.

The following is taken from the GROS site............

The adoptee should write to the Adoption Unit providing details of their adoptive name, date of birth and full postal address. They will be sent a declaration form to complete.

What might be revealed?

- further information about place and time of birth
- the original name under which the adoptee was registered
- the adoptee's mother's name and surname and possibly occupation
- the adoptee's name, if recorded, and
- the name and possibly the relationship of the person who registered the birth.

This information may also give a lead into Adoption records or Adoption Agency records. The adoptee will also be told the location of their Court records.

Only the adoptee or their authorised agent can access these court records. Only the adoptee, not even their agent is allowed to make copies.

In this case it would only be Joseph or his agent who could access these records.

The only possibility is to do a search at New Register House for any Joseph, surname either Johns or Murgitroyd in the 1940s in the registration district that covers Forest Hall, and nearby registration districts.

Davie

[AndrewP]

My understanding is that there are two sets of Adoption Registers. Those which are open to the public and are found amongst the Minor Records (suffixed AR). Quite separate is the other Adoption Register that is not open to the public.

I give an example from my research and found in the AR Minor Records (names and dates changed to protect the privacy of the individual concerned).

• JOHN ALBERT BROWN, born on 25/12/1945
  Adopted by William James Brown (grocer) and Helen Jane Black (wife) of 100 High Street, Edinburgh.
  Adoption Order made by the Sheriff Court of The Lothians and Peebles at Edinburgh 01/03/1946.
  Registered 03/03/1946 Edinburgh.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[DavidWW]

My understanding is that there are two sets of Adoption Registers. Those which are open to the public and are found amongst the Minor Records (suffixed AR). Quite separate is the other Adoption Register that is not open to the public.

I give an example from my research and found in the AR Minor Records (names and dates changed to protect the privacy of the individual concerned).

• JOHN ALBERT BROWN, born on 25/12/1945
  Adopted by William James Brown (grocer) and Helen Jane Black (wife) of 100 High Street, Edinburgh.
  Adoption Order made by the Sheriff Court of The Lothians and Peebles at Edinburgh 01/03/1946.
  Registered 03/03/1946 Edinburgh.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Facsinating............

Neither Cory nor Irvine clarifies this......

I think that I now understand the process.

The original birth entry is made in the Register of Births.

The new birth entry after the adoption is shown in the Minor Records, but this will only show the adoptive parents, not the natural parents, and the child will be shown with the surname of the adoptive parents (which can still be the same if it's grandparents who are adopting!), who may also have changed the child's given name, i.e. the natural parents names are not shown. Although this entry shows the Sheriff Court reference those court records are closed to all others apart from the adopting parents, and the adopted child.

There is then an entry in the Register of Adoptions which links the new Minor Records entry to the original entry in the Register of Births, and this is only accessible by the child via the Adoption Unit at NRH.

Next time I'm in NRH I'll check if this interpretation is correct.

David

[emma]

hi all, thanks for all your help, I know that I dont have any rights in knowing who adopted Joseph, I can only hope that some day he may get curious about his roots,I will look into all your suggestions and who knows what I will find, many,many thanks, emma

[AndrewP]

As an amendment to the information that I gave regarding adoption records in NRH, the AR suffixed records are not kept with the (publicly accessible) Minor Records. They are held in a non-public area of NRH. To access them, you fill in a form to see the individual records. The microfiche is brought to you. You are only allowed to access a maximum of three of these on any one day visit to NRH.

They do check on the three per day. I checked all three adoption records in my family tree on the one day and was reminded of the restriction - no more allowed for me that day. I guess three per day is sufficient for most family history research.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson