Desperate for help please

[LesleyB]

Yup - that seems to be what IGI does....

1868 REID JAMES BAY M CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 1095
1868 ANGUS JAMES RAMAGE M CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/03 0513

- different numbers, so almost certainly both different children. But both CANONGATE...

Best wishes
Lesley

[SarahND]

Hi Lesley,
You have a point there. Not sure what is going on, but checking the batch numbers on the Hugh Wallis site, it looks as though the Canongate ones only go up to 1854 and the Edinburgh Parish ones carry on with 1855

Oh, I see you have answered this yourself while I was bumbling around in batch numbers

Best,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Sarah

According to Andrew's info:
http://www.talkingscot.com/rds/city-rds-edin.htm

Canongate 685/03 covers dates 1859 - 1938


Whatever, ...sadly it does not solve the mystery of the "missing" James.

Best wishes
Lesley

[SarahND]

Hi all,
This topic raises a question for which I don't have an answer and I'm wondering if anyone does. Would it have been possible for the birth to have been registered with no name? Even with the expanded search possibilities on SP

" Male child born 4th Jan 1868.

would not be searchable. Is there a way that this birth could be found at the Scotland's People centre?

My mother's birth certificate also has no name, only her mother's name. However, I had her exact date of birth and place, so was able to obtain the cert.(but this was in Ohio). Just wondering if it is possible that something similar is the only thing that exists for the birth of James Angus. It wouldn't be likely to give any new information, but at least one would know to stop searching for a complete cert.

All the best,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Sarah

Is there a way that this birth could be found at the Scotland's People centre?

I've had a precise date before with a "problem" name (one of those Irish surnames which has more spelling variations than I've had hot dinners, and I could not find without wildards which were not an option on the DIGROS system). I asked the staff and they are able to look through the registration books page by page (digitally, on screen), which as a customer you cannot do. So, given a precise date and a limited area it should be "do-able". Only problem I can see is, that although you know where he was born, we do not know for sure where he was registered. It is possible that it may not be in the same district, (or possibly even county!) as the birth.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Montrose Budie]

Hi all,
This topic raises a question for which I don't have an answer and I'm wondering if anyone does. Would it have been possible for the birth to have been registered with no name?

.....snipped...........

No given name, yes, but she would be assumed to have the surname of her mother if no father's name was given; the father's name if they were married, or, as far as the indexes were concerned, both if the birth was illegitimate.

mb

[Dennie]

Hi Everybody,

Thank you so much for the help and work you are all doing. I have checked loads of records over a time, as you can imagine! James Ramage Angus is definately not grandfather and the James Reids didn't seem to equate either. I have just checked out the Chelsea Pensioners (grandfather was one) and found a few bits on there, if they are correct! On one form the place of birth is down as St. Cuthberts, Edinburgh on another father listed as William only address 8 Ponton Street, Edinburgh, so on the hunt again.

Grandfathers mother was definately Ann Angus born in Lochbroom 27/06/1842 father James Angus and mother Mary Moffatt. I have dates for their births, marriage and deaths. the only record I have for Ann after her birth is in the 1871 census which lists her as a housekeeper working in Luibraich, after that nothing. I did come across an Annie Angus in the 1891 census living at 23, Cleveland Street, St Marlebone, London. I don't think there is any connection but who knows, she lists herself as a widow, a dressmaker aged 43, born Dingwall, has children Evaline (Eva) 16, a son Walter 9. In the 1881 census she is listed at 11 Gt Titchfield Street, London again with 2 children Eveline 7 and Arthur 2, here she is unmarried. I have checked her birth in the Dingwall area but the only one that shows is my gt. grandmother and there is a 5 year age difference, but that happens. Again I can't get back to those missing years!

[SarahND]

Hi Dennie,
What year was the 8 Ponton Street, Edinburgh reference? The censuses can be searched by address, but no obvious father comes up. The only (extremely long shot!) connection I can find is between the following William Reid in Inveresk (i.e. Musselburgh) in 1871:

1871
38 High St, Inveresk, Midlothian
William Reid, 25, Head, born Inveresk, Midlothian, Cab Driver
Catherine Reid, 27, Wife, born Haddington
Jane Reid, 1, Daughter, born Inveresk, Midlothian
Mary Reid, 67, Mother, born East Salton, East Lothian, Dependent on Son

And Alexander Harper, who lived at 8 Ponton St in 1891 and who was also a cab driver

Well... you never know what little bit of info might help!

Regards,
Sarah

[nelmit]

Hi Everybody,


Grandfathers mother was definately Ann Angus born in Lochbroom 27/06/1842 father James Angus and mother Mary Moffatt. I have dates for their births, marriage and deaths. the only record I have for Ann after her birth is in the 1871 census which lists her as a housekeeper working in Luibraich, after that nothing. I did come across an Annie Angus in the 1891 census living at 23, Cleveland Street, St Marlebone, London. I don't think there is any connection but who knows, she lists herself as a widow, a dressmaker aged 43, born Dingwall, has children Evaline (Eva) 16, a son Walter 9. In the 1881 census she is listed at 11 Gt Titchfield Street, London again with 2 children Eveline 7 and Arthur 2, here she is unmarried. I have checked her birth in the Dingwall area but the only one that shows is my gt. grandmother and there is a 5 year age difference, but that happens. Again I can't get back to those missing years!

It does look likely that this is your g granddmother in later census records but the one you've quoted above appears to be 1861 where she is 17 and with the family. I cannot find any of the family in 1871 although it looks like Margaret had a child Mary born at Dingwall in 1870.

Have you found any of them in 1871? (Later........I found them at Dingwall transcribed as Augus but Ann isn't with them)

I take it your grandfather's birthday was 4th January. Is that why you are sure he was the male child born to Ann Angus at the maternity hospital or do you have other proof that this was him?

Regards,
Annette

[Dennie]

The family shows up in the census for Dingwall 1881 living at 25 Hill Street, the list is:
David Angus unmarried16 son painter
Elizabeth (Effie) unmarried 29 daughter dressmaker
Mary Angus unmarried 27
Mary Angus 62 widow Occupant (died in 13/03/1920 in poorhouse)
Johanna McKenzie 60 Lodger from Dublin
Hugh McLaren 2 gd.child b. Glassgow
Mary McPherson 10 gd. child Scholar b. Dingwall
William Stewart 3 gd. child b. Dingwall (b. 8/10/1877 poss. Mary's child)
I'm not sure if the last 3 children belong to Mary or Johanna as gd. children. Ann after the 1861 census never seems to appear.

Grandfather spoke of Mary Moffatt as his grandmother ( trying to remember!) birthday deff. 4th Jan and bits of letters/papers passed from Dad, plus family Dad knew in Edinburgh/Cowdenbeath which I think were on the Angus side , but I never knew the surnames, just Dad called them cousins. I seem to recall a "brother" being mentioned who was a gilly somewhere, but it is very vague and perhaps he wasn't a blood relation, a bit in the mist of time I'm afraid. Dad also had a cousin called Walter Frazer about 15 years older and lived in Splading Lincs but I have no idea where he fits in!! For grandfather to know members of the Angus side he must have had contact with someone somewhere
Hope this makes some sense!