RCEs: a personal experience.....

[DavidWW]

Rachel

The RCE procedure only applies to the post 1854 statutory BMD records. As far as I'm aware there is no equivalent for the OPRs.

There is something called the RNE = Register of Neglected Entries, which was a method of "registering" pre-1855 births (mostly) which had not originally been registered when they came to light in 1855 or later, but this isn't helpful in this situation.

As far as I'm aware all that GROS will do in relation to the OPRs is to add to or correct the index.

In this case I'd want to see the full entry before making any assumptions, as it wasn't always the case that a child appeared in the OPR a few weeks after birth, - it could sometimes be a few years before the parents got round to it, or is that the full text that you give, in which case .......!

David

[Rachel]

Thanks for your interest DavidWW. The copy of the OPR which I now have shows under the heading.
30 November 1851
C Young Catherine Herdman lau*
P Robert Young
Emily Fiskin
Born 17th October
the above particulars are extracted from a register of births +baptisms dated 17th October 1851.
I do not know what the annotation after each child on the certificate means and it is not clear if is Lauf or Laup.
I am satisfied that Robert and Emily were the childs grandparents and that her parents were Robert and Margaret, so should I ask GROS to have a look?
Sporran. I have now found Catherine's marriage and I do think it was she on the 1892 D/C I also found her still with her mother Margaret on the 1881 census. The reason I did not know about Isabella was because I was so flummoxed about the above mystery. I have obtained a copy of Isabella's birth and death certificates from SP.
Thanks again for your help.
regards to both of you.

[DavidWW]

Thanks for your interest DavidWW. The copy of the OPR which I now have shows under the heading.
30 November 1851
C Young Catherine Herdman lau*
P Robert Young
Emily Fiskin
Born 17th October
the above particulars are extracted from a register of births +baptisms dated 17th October 1851.
I do not know what the annotation after each child on the certificate means and it is not clear if is Lauf or Laup.
I am satisfied that Robert and Emily were the childs grandparents and that her parents were Robert and Margaret, so should I ask GROS to have a look?
.....snipped.......

Given the IGI entry of:

CATHERINE HERDMAN YOUNG
Female

Event(s):
Birth: 17 OCT 1851 Falkirk, Stirling, Scotland

Parents:
Father: ROBERT YOUNG
Mother: EMILY FISKIN

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

.... I'm at a loss to know what "lau*" means ...........

David

[sporran]

Hello Rachel and David,


was it daur for daughter? If not, perhaps you could load a scan?


Regards,

John

[Rachel]

Thanks again David and Sporran. No Sporran the annotation could not be daughter as it comes after some male births too, I wonder if it someones initials. Afraid I cannot send a scan of the document as I do not have the necessary equipment. I think I will let Gros have the details and it will be up to them to use it or not
regards from rachel.

[DavidWW]

Thanks again David and Sporran. No Sporran the annotation could not be daughter as it comes after some male births too, I wonder if it someones initials. Afraid I cannot send a scan of the document as I do not have the necessary equipment. I think I will let Gros have the details and it will be up to them to use it or not
regards from rachel.

Any chance of a photocopy by post to : ??..............

David W Webster
1 Middlewood Park
Deans
LIVINGSTON
West Lothian
EH54 8AZ

David

[Rachel]

Yes David I can do that. Will use the photocoper in the library tomorrow when I do my shopping. Thanks for your interest.
rachel

[nelmit]

I have received the copy of the OPR and it has given no more information than LDS and SP but perhaps someone would like to hear my tale.
My gggrandparents were Robert Young and Amelia/Emily Fiskin*. Emily was born 1795 and they were married 1817. I have traced 8 of their children, their 7th was a son Robert born 18th April 1831.
On the 15th Dec 1850 Robert married Margaret Herdman born 23rd Dec 1830 to Archibald Herdman and Catherine Frazer. The marriage took place in Glasgow.
They had a daughter Amelia born 27th Dec 1852 in Glasgow and a son Robert born 17th Oct 1857 Calton Glasgow.
On the 1861 census I found
Margaret age 30 years
Amelia age 8 years
Margaret age 7 years born Greenock
Robert age 3 years
The family were still living in the Calton area but I found no trace of Robert at this time.
On the 1871 census I did find Robert in the City Parish Poorhouse. Record showed he was a wood turner (as on young Roberts B/C) He was classified a lunatic. Robert died in the City Poorhouse in 1878. His D/C showed he was a woodturner married to Margaret Herdman, informant was Margaret Young widow.
Also in the 1871 census I found:
Margaret Young head age 40
Catherine Young daughter age 19 born Falkirk
Emily Young " age 18 born Glasgow
Margaret Young " age 16 born Greenock
Robert Young son age 13 born Glasgow.
Finding this unknown daughter Catherine sent me scurrying to LDS and SP where I found:
Catherine Herdman Young born 17th Oct 1851 parents Robert Young and Emily Fiskin*. I have tried to find another Robert Young married to Emily Fiskin without success. It all seems too much of a coincidence. The child is named after Margaret Youngs mother. If the Emily Fiskin is my gggrandmother she would have been 56 when Catherine was born and Margaret Young has shown a Catherine Young on the census as her daughter.
I have tried to find Catherine's marriage which may have shown who she thought her parents were or even her death but have had no luck. Oddly enough I have been unable to confirm the birth of Margaret Young in Greenock.
Rather a long winded tale, but Sporran do you think GROS would be interested in this for a possible RCE and is it worthwhile submitting it to them?
rachel

Hello Rachel,

Had a look at the poorhouse application made in May 1857 and it confirms children of Robert and Margaret as: Catherine, Amelia, Marg, Isabella (who died in October 1857) and Robert. I will post the application under general discussion tomorrow although I don't think it tells you any more than you already know.

Annette M

[DavidWW]

Yes David I can do that. Will use the photocoper in the library tomorrow when I do my shopping. Thanks for your interest.
rachel

Rachel

It's so obvious when I actually see the record

It's "lawf" = lawful, i.e. legitimate, as opposed to "natural" or more direct descriptions, for illegitimate.

David

PS In a different hand in the bottom right entry, it's written "lawl" with the second "l" superscript.

dww

[Rachel]

Nelmit thanks for that information it has been a great help. It was good of you to take the trouble looks as if Robert spent almost half his life in the Glasgow Poorhouse.
David your comments about lawf are interesting but only adds to the mystery. Whose lawf was Catherine, not Robert and Amelias'. I think there is or would have been a tale to tell there. I have sent details to GROS and will let them decide.
Thanks to everyone for their interest and help.
rachel