Brickwall-Help appreciated!!!

[David Lang]

Wow Jean

That is some bit of research you have been doing, seeing as i started it i will give you my tuppence worth!!

Definately think the illegimate child became William , as there is no birth record for William (Another brickwall !!!!)

I think the 1871 Census may hold the key , as we could see if she is in the address at Spittal Street , Stirling.

The lockhart name means nothing to me but could be way to rule out one of the Mary Ann's , I think it might be the case of ruling out rather than ruling in and then looking at what is left in the pot!!!

A possibility as she died in Partick and by that time Robert was a Police Constable and relatively well off that she was buried inGlasgow and there might be a headstone or Burial record , if they are like any of my other Partick Relatives they will be in Craigton , or Maryhill !!!! And i have walked a lot looking for them.

Any way Jean thanks you have given me a whole host of options to pursue over the winter!!!

[JustJean]

Hi David

Glad you think so

The only thing that has crept in to my thinking is what if Alexander Neilson was not in Stirlingshire? I don't think I checked country wide....but maybe that's not necessary. I wondered after reading another post on TS about the changes in Parish boundares on the 1851 census and how one parish seems to be missing from the index or at least found in another parish or something. What if Alexander was living in this gray area?..ln a portion that used to be Stirlingshire but now wasn't??...or even what if Mary Ann were there too? Hmmmmm.....not sure just how to check on that. Need a map expert to analyze the logic in it. Sad to say I'm not equal to it yet...still got stuffed sinuses and a block of wood for brain.....

Best wishes
Jean

[AndrewP]

Hi David

Glad you think so

The only thing that has crept in to my thinking is what if Alexander Neilson was not in Stirlingshire? I don't think I checked country wide....but maybe that's not necessary. I wondered after reading another post on TS about the changes in Parish boundares on the 1851 census and how one parish seems to be missing from the index or at least found in another parish or something. What if Alexander was living in this gray area?..ln a portion that used to be Stirlingshire but now wasn't??...or even what if Mary Ann were there too? Hmmmmm.....not sure just how to check on that. Need a map expert to analyze the logic in it. Sad to say I'm not equal to it yet...still got stuffed sinuses and a block of wood for brain.....

Best wishes
Jean

Hi Jean,

When the 1851 census was assembled onto the microfilms, the parts of split parishes from the different counties were placed together using the GROS Registration District numbering system to group them. A variation of that system has been used for the DIGROS system in New Register House and on ScotlandsPeople keeping them grouped in the same manner. So for any of the parishes split across county boundaries, they are indexed together in that parish, which is indexed under the one county that GROS used for that parish. It may not be geographically accurate, but it is by far the easiest system for indexing. Any other method would probably only add complications to the system.

On SP or in NRH you would probably only be aware of the different counties for a parish if you read the page in the header information that describes the area enumerated in that book. The county is given on that page. It is more obvious on the microfilms, where an "index card" (my description) page is inserted at the start of each parish, or at a change of county within that parish.

All the best,

AndrewP

[David Lang]

I had this thought as well Jean , i was looking through 1841 census for scotland for Alexander's , on the assumption that he was 16 years plus on father Mary Ann , making him at least 2 in 1841!

I am off to the mitchel in my lunch hour to see if i can find a burial record for Mary Ann to see if that gives any clues.

Unfortunately my family know nothing of the Denovans as Robert and Mary Ann were dead before my dad was born!!

Cheers
David

[David Lang]

Surprise surprise after searching at the mitchell , there isnt a burial record so no tombstone to inspect - typical of this line of my family!!!

Even my Browns/Stewarts and Campbells are easier than this lot

[apanderson]

Hi David,

A wee bit of a tangent here . . . . . .

Are any of the following families yours? (From MI's in St. Ninian's)

In affectionate remembrance of ROBERT DENOVAN who died at Bannockburn 20th March 1886
And his wife ANNIE CAMPBELL who died 6th September 1878
And their children
ANNIE, MAGGIE and ROBERT who all died young
HELEN DENOVAN died 27th? November? 1903? Aged 28? Years
CHARLES BOWIE DENOVAN 6th Batt. Canadian Army
Died at Amiens?, France 22nd August 1918 aged 34 years
ISABELLA DENOVAN died 20th? May 1935 aged ….. years

In loving memory of WILLIAM DENOVAN who died 1st August 1890 aged 73 years
Also his wife ELIZABETH ROLLO who died 14th February 1897 aged 84 years
HENRY DENOVAN their son died 28th July 1899 aged 44 years

Anne

[David Lang]

Hi Anne

The last lot are mine, Henry being Mary Ann's brother in law and William and Elizabeth being her Mother and Father in law.

The brickwall still stands , i have written it off at the moment. Hopefully when i find the grand children of Robert and Mary Ann their names may give away something about Mary's parents!!!!

[grannysrock]

Could Mary have knocked a few years off her age to appear younger than her husband?

Apologies if this one has been mentioned before.

From Ancestry's index:

Registration district: Stirling
Civil parish: Stirling
County: Stirlingshire
Address: 94 Baker St
ED: 8
Page: 17 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 117
Roll: CSSCT1861_66


18 Alexander Nelson abt 1803 Head Chelsea Pensioner Stirling Stirlingshire
19 Margaret Nelson abt 1809 Wife Stirling Stirlingshire
21 William Nelson abt 1845 Son Plumber Ap Stirling Stirlingshire
21 Margaret Nelson abt 1847 Daughter Dress Maker Ap Stirling Stirlingshire
22 Mary Nelson abt 1850 Daughter Scholar Stirling Stirlingshire

Don't see that family on IGI with mother Margaret , But

an ALEXANDER NEILSON married a JOAN RAE ( a new mother !!! ) - International Genealogical Index

Gender: Male Marriage: 13 NOV 1843 Stirling, Stirling, Scotland

Children:
1. MARGARET COWAN NEILSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 29 MAR 1847 Stirling, Stirling, Scotland

2. MARY CULVERWELL NEILSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 29 DEC 1849 Stirling, Stirling, Scotland

3. WILLIAM NEILSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 24 MAY 1845 Stirling, Stirling, Scotland

Nice match to the above family apart from the mother.
COULD Joan have died ? No sign of this family on 1851 with either Alexander or Joan as Head.

Did see a marriage of an Alexander Nielson to
MARGARET EWING Family
Marriage: 29 JUN 1850 Stirling, Stirling, Scotland

I think the following family has to be the 1861 family. Oliver must be an error on someone's part , transcriber's or enumerator's. I'm sure the kids surname will be Nielson not Wilson.

From Ancestry
1851 Scotland Census

Parish Number: 490
Civil parish: Stirling
County: Stirlingshire
Address: Baker Street
ED: 8
Page: 17 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 79
Roll: CSSCT1851_104


1 Oliver Nielson abt 1803 Head Out Chelsea Pensioner Stirling Stirlingshire
2 Margaret Nielson abt 1807 Mar Stirling Stirlingshire
3 William Nielson abt 1846 Son Scholar Stirling Stirlingshire
4 Margaret Wilson abt 1847 Daughter Stirling Stirlingshire
5 Mary Wilson abt 1850 Daughter Stirling Stirlingshire


As for the other names , well this Mary would not have known her mother Joan Rae, and that might explain why she woul put Margaret down on her marriage. I've had a couple where the mother's maiden name was wrong on the marriage - sometimes it turned out to be a family name. And I have umpteem death records where the parents names are wrong .

I did see that a William Nielson married a Martha Galloway in Stirlingshire and wondered if they could have been uncle and auntie ?

So another address to look for in 1871 would be Baker Street ( I've got snatches of Gerry Rafferty's big tune in my heid noo )
I note on the SP indices that there is 68yr old Alexander NEILSON and 66yr old Margrate NEILSON with the same reference number in Stirling .

Perhaps not the right family , but its' a try ......

Sally

[David Lang]

Hi Sally

Wow more info to look at and try and solve the puzzle of Mary Ann

Thanks

David

[apanderson]

Still looking for Denovans David?

I was having a meander round Bannockburn Cemetery yesterday and found 3 Denovan stones. One of them is almost a duplicate of the one in St. Ninians's - the family of whom Charles Bowie Denovan killed in WW1 was a member.

The other two - well, you'll be able to identify them no doubt!

The MI's are:

1.
In loving memory of HELEN (NELLIE) DENOVAN who died on 27th November 1905 aged 23 years
Pte. CHARLES BOWIE DENOVAN, 45th B.C.A.
(46th Bn. Canadian Infantry, Saskatchewan Regiment)
Who died at Amiens, France 22nd August 1918 aged 34 years
MARGARET ADAM or DENOVAN died 12th June 1934 aged 82 years

2.
In loving memory of our dear brother JOHN DENOVAN
Born 27th January 1890, died 25th May 1937
Also of ROBERT WHITE, born 12th December 1896 died 24th November 1959
Beloved husband of MARGARET DENOVAN died 5th January 1974
And her sister LILIAS DENOVAN 8th May 1905 – 4th July 1988

3.
In loving memory of our dear mother MARGARET McARTHUR
Born 28th January 1864 died 26th July 1910
And our father JAMES DENOVAN born 26th March 1865 died 11th October 1936

Let me know if you want photos.

Anne