Coroners Records.....

[SarahND]

David, if you had said this outsourcing had gone to an English speaking country, I would not feel annoyed, most of us have had the calls from India, from people who purportedly speak English, but cant understand a word they say.

Kathy,
Many people in India (and I assume the ones doing the transcriptions) speak English as a first language, due to the history of the British occupation of that country. For reading and writing there is very little difference between your English and theirs (except theirs may be more archaic in certain areas-- all to the good in this instance). As usual, it is the spoken language that differs the most. The Indian accent in English is difficult for many to understand (as, for example, the southern American accent is for speakers of Indian English), but that does not mean that the language itself is different. I would imagine that many of us on this board would have a hard time understanding each other if we were speaking, instead of writing (or if we wrote like we speak, e.g. many people's confessed difficulty understanding Davie's posts )

Okay, I will step off the linguist's soapbox now , but just wanted to say that if you are looking for English readers in a country where labour is inexpensive, India is probably your very best choice.

Regards,
Sarah

P.S. I would agree with Lesley's comments just posted while I was writing this that training in the local geography, places names and specialized vocabulary is important for anyone doing this sort of work.

[DavidWW]

.....snipped................

I won’t even buy into the discussion on, it being cheaper in India, yes, it probably is, but willing volunteers, with a keen interest in research are even cheaper, and have a vested interest in accuracy.

Kathy

Understood, but would there be enough volunteers to produce a complete index of any of the Scottish censuses in just a few months?

In other words, the dilemma is having an index with errors now as against several years' wait for an index via the volunteers route?

David

[DavidWW]

.......snipped............Would any present day GLAP families stand up.
Ditto - Ruppell/Rupel, Slop, Crop , Cropan, Copar, Whitecrop, and countless others.

Translate as Glass, Russell/l , Sloss, Cross, Crossan, Cossar, Whitecross. etc.

.....snipped .......

In the 1841 to 1901 census indexes there are the following entries ...

GLAP 100

RUPEL 78

RUPELL 405

GLAP 100

CROP 131

CROPAN 1

COPAR 76

WHITECROP 23

For reasons not fully clear to me, the later the date of the production of the census index, the fewer such "Double SS" errors. In other words this type of error is most frequent in the earlier censues. This may be as simple as the order of the indexes, 1881 apart, being 1891, 1901, 1871, 1861, 1851 and 1841 .........

David

[Kathy]

.....snipped................

I won’t even buy into the discussion on, it being cheaper in India, yes, it probably is, but willing volunteers, with a keen interest in research are even cheaper, and have a vested interest in accuracy.

Kathy

Understood, but would there be enough volunteers to produce a complete index of any of the Scottish censuses in just a few months?

In other words, the dilemma is having an index with errors now as against several years' wait for an index via the volunteers route?

David

Well David, I do wonder, if SP had dipped their toe in the water, and called for volunteers, how many of us would have put our hands up, I for one would have jumped at the opportunity, as I am sure many others would also, but as the outsourcing has already been done, we and SP will never know.

<Quote> from Lesleys post

1. The transcriber ideally should speak the same dialect as the document he/she is transcribing, or at least have a good understanding of it.

2. The transcriber should be familiar with placenames in the area.

I totally agree Lesley. if the shoe happened to be on the other foot, how would we get on transcribing BDM for India!

Kathy

[sporran]

Hello all,


sorry for continuing the thread drift.

On the second occasion that I suggested using volunteers (May 2006 User Group meeting), I followed up by suggesting a pilot scheme to add the ages at death where they are currently missing from the indexes. Based on some rough calculations, and assuming 20 volunteers, I believed that the project could be completed by the end of this year. This was put forward for me at an SP internal meeting, and the response was that it was left with GROS, but that they felt that they should pay for the work to be done in the usual manner.

I can understand this approach, for a few reasons:
● known timescale;
● less GROS involvement, i.e. the data is handed over and the results delivered without the need to manage the process;
● perceived greater security.

I am not stating that those are the reasons that GROS have stated, but what I think that they could be. However, if ages at death do not appear this year, a question will be asked at the next User Group meeting (probably mid-January).

David is correct in pointing out that re-indexing censuses is a major task. Statistics from FreeBMD show that with thousands of volunteers (3780 on the Scan2 syndicate alone), 157 million records have been uploaded in 7 years. My instinct is that trying to use the likely number of volunteers available to produce thick indexes in a reasonable time is akin to ****ing in the ocean.

By the way, is the declining number of "double s" mis-transcriptions through the years possibly due to declining use of "double s" in handwriting?


Regards,

John

[Kathy]

On the original question of notations on the left side of death entrys, I have had a reply from SP.

Kathy

Quote

You may occasionally come across a statutory image with a note in the margin
‘RCE’ and a reference number. RCE stands for Register of Corrected Entries.
If, after an entry in a register had been completed, an error was discovered
or some other amendment was required as a result of new information, the
original entry could not be altered. Instead, each registrar kept a register
of corrected entries in which such amendments were written, originally after
they had been approved by a sheriff.

Images of RCEs are not yet available, though this is planned. In the
interim, to find out the effect of an RCE, you will need to order an extract
of the entry concerned. The extract will reflect the amendments recorded in
the RCE.

[emanday]

I do have a couple of certs with RCE in the margin, but think I know what the mistake probably was from certs for other events that followed.

Should I really get the extracts to ensure that my assumptions are correct?

[SarahND]

By the way, is the declining number of "double s" mis-transcriptions through the years possibly due to declining use of "double s" in handwriting?

I wondered about this too, John. In fact, I read David's sentence over several times trying to puzzle out what he meant

For reasons not fully clear to me, the later the date of the production of the census index, the fewer such "Double SS" errors. In other words this type of error is most frequent in the earlier censues. This may be as simple as the order of the indexes, 1881 apart, being 1891, 1901, 1871, 1861, 1851 and 1841 ...

The first sentence sounds as if he means there are fewer double ss errors in the earlier censuses, which were indexed later Is this what you meant, David? The second sentence seems to be saying the opposite
Or have I lost my mind? Help! David, could you clarify please?
Sarah

[AndrewP]

I do have a couple of certs with RCE in the margin, but think I know what the mistake probably was from certs for other events that followed.

Should I really get the extracts to ensure that my assumptions are correct?

Hi Mary,

The information in RCEs is a bit of a lottery. Sometimes they give you some extra information that was not obvious from the original certificate. Other ones merely confirm that the information (on a death certificate. usually the cause of death) on the certificate was found to be correct by the Procurator Fiscal. Or it can be a correction to some piece of information wrongly given on the original certificate.

You have to judge if you think it may offer you something new. Another option is for you to wait for the RCEs to come online and make a purchase then.

All the best,

AndrewP

[emanday]

Thanks for that Andrew.

Any idea what the schedule is likely to be for that?