birth certs with no father.....

[laura140281]

I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have information from a birth certificate that only shows the mothers name any ideas how I can find out who the father was? Any help would be great!

[mesklin]

Laura

Worth looking forward a few years, to see if the person got married. Marriage certificates often have the 'reputed' father.

Mesklin

[laura140281]

Thanks for the reply, this is the information I know from birth cert:

John Betram born December quarter 1876 in Sunderland, mother Isabella Bertram born Scotland.

In 1881 census isabella is married to john hooper. John Bertram is named as John Bertram Hooper and John Hooper is shown as his father.

In 1901 census John Hooper is married to Elizabeth and John Bertram is shown as his step-son.

There was a story in the family to suggest that a servant girl and the son of a wealthy Bertram family in Edinburgh had an affair and she got pregnant. The father of the house paid the gamekeeper to marry her and bring up the baby(John Bertram) and the baby could keep the family name. However, after receiving the information from John Bertrams birth certificate I am puzzled as to whats happened. Maybe she was the daughter of the wealthy family and had an affair with the gamekeeper? Any suggestions would be great!
Thanks

[Andy]

Wish I'd read this post before answering the other.

In 1901 Isabella is listed as Elizabeth born in Durham with John Hooper born Scotland think there must have been a few pubs on the enumerators route!

In 1891 Isabella is indexed as Isabella D. Hooper but the "D" isn't formed the same way as others by this enumerator. I think it could be "S".

There WAS an Isabella Steven Bertram born in 1851 to Peter and Jean Henderson who, as if by magic, appear in the 1881 census:

Dwelling 10 Low Street
Census Place Sunderland, Durham, England
Family History Library Film 1342204
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5002 / 143
Page Number 63

Peter BERTRAM Head M Male 50 Scotland Wharf Warehouseman (Wharf Serv)
Jane BERTRAM Wife M Female 50 Scotland
John BERTRAM Son U Male 18 Scotland Engineman (Unployed) (Eng Drivr)

Jean and Jane are completely interchangeable.

Here are all their reported children:

1. ELISABETH BERTRAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 20 MAY 1858 Crichton, Midlothian, Scotland

2. JOHN BERTRAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 JUL 1862 Crichton, Midlothian, Scotland

3. HELEN BERTRAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 23 FEB 1856 Cranston, Midlothian, Scotland

4. CECIL KEPPIE BERTRAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 MAY 1854 Crichton, Midlothian, Scotland

5. ISABELLA STEVEN BERTRAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 15 JUN 1851 Ormiston, East Lothian, Scotland (Exactly the right age)

Now, given young John's place of birth as Sunderland, Durham I find this latest evidence a bit more compelling than the family tales (which is a shame because it was a great story).

Then we dig a bit deeper and find that Peter's parents were John and Cecilia Keppie who had three recorded children:

1. PETER BARTRAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 MAR 1831 Cranston, Midlothian, Scotland

2. James Bertram - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 15 DEC 1839 <Fountainhall, Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland>

3. John Bertram - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 DEC 1834 <South Lodge,Ormiston Hall, Ormiston, East Lothian, Scotland>

In 1881 John (Isabella's Grandfather) is still alive at Ormiston Hall but not the owner:

Dwelling: Dodridge
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 3 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John BERTRAM W 77 M Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Farm Steward
Agnes BERTRAM U 25 F Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Housekeeper Domes Serv
Isabella COCKBURN U 17 F Crichton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Gen Ser Dom

Ormiston was a fairly massive estate so, as usual there was a smattering of truth around the story.

There were a few Bertrams working at the hall. Peter's brother:

Dwelling: Ormiston Hall South Gate House
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 2 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John BERTRAM M 46 M Cranston, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Forester
Jane BERTRAM M 45 F Cranston, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife

Brother James:

Dwelling: Fountainhall Ho
Census Place: Pencaitland, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 716 EnumDist 3 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James BERTRAM M 41 M Ford, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Forester
Janet BERTRAM M 39 F Humbie, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Jane B. BERTRAM U 13 F Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Cecillia K. BERTRAM 11 F Pencaitland, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
John BERTRAM 8 M Pencaitland, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Thomas H. BERTRAM 5 M Pencaitland, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar

Suspect this is another relation:

Dwelling:
Census Place: Hume, Berwick, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224031 GRO Ref Volume 744 EnumDist 2 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Elisabeth DODDS W 62 F Greenlaw, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Farmer Of 37 Ac Emp 1 Man 2 Girls (30 Ara 7 Pasture)
Isabella BROWNLEE U 60 F Greenlaw, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Sister
Occ: Dressmaker
Catherine BROWNLEE U 58 F Greenlaw, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Sis
Occ: Gen Serv (Dom)
William BERTRAM M 34 M Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son In Law
Occ: Ag Lab
Jane BERTRAM M 34 F Hume, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Dau
John BERTRAM 12 M England
Rel: Grdson
Occ: Scholar
Elisabeth BERTRAM 10 F Hume, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Grd Dau
Occ: Scholar
Cecilia BERTRAM 7 F Hume, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Grd Dau
Occ: Scholar
George BERTRAM 3 M Hume, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Grdson
Occ: Scholar

Hope this is the correct lines and is of help.

[laura140281]

Andy, thankyou so much for taking your time to help me. I looked on Scotlands People last night and checked the 1871 census and found: Isabella Bertram niece 21 domestic servant born Dundee
Adam Henderson head 61 shepherd Rosburgh
Isabella Henderson wife 58

The information you have given me fits in with what I found on the 1871 census.

I was really confused about the isabella/elizabeth names so thankyou for helping clarify that.

I am so grateful and appreciative to you for giving me all that information I have finally moved forward!

I am so pleased with all this new information it is exactly what I have been looking for, for the last few months.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Laura

[Andy]

Digging even deeper. Ormiston Hall (Castle) was the Original seat of the Cockburn family (see the boarder) who took over the from the Dunbars. The Cockburns built the castle between 1450 and 1530.

Many family names actually came about because workers "Adopted" the Laird's surname.

Next to John Bertram there is:

Dwelling: Dodridge
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 3 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James COCKBURN M 68 M Newbattle, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Gardener Dom Serv
Margaret COCKBURN M 64 F Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Wife

And next to them:

Dwelling: Dodridge
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 3 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
David COCKBURN M 44 M Westruther, Berwick, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Ploughman
Jessie COCKBURN M 43 F Haddington, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Wife
James COCKBURN U 20 M Humbie, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Ploughman
Archibald COCKBURN 12 M Crichton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Robert COCKBURN 9 M Crichton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Mary COCKBURN 7 F Crichton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Scholar
Devina COCKBURN 4 F Crichton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Dau
George COCKBURN 7 m M Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son
Robert BERTRAM M 23 M Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son In Law
Occ: Ag Lab
Alison BERTRAM M 22 F Humbie, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Dau


If the father was from the "Big House" here is who was living there in 1881:

Dwelling: Ormiston Hall
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 2 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
George DEMPSTER M 77 M Dunnichen, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Deputy Lieut & J P Of Sutherland County
Joanne H. DEMPSTER M 74 F Manhead, Devon, England
Rel: Wife
Agnes MACNAB U 35 F Kirkmichael, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Ladys Maid
Isabella HONEYMAN U 27 F Collessie, Fife, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Cook
Elsie GRANT U 35 F Creich, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Serv
Occ: Laundry Maid
Martha MACDONALD U 21 F Killearnan, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: House Maid
Euphemia ELLIOT U 38 F Loch Broom, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Dairy Maid
Mary MATHIESON U 21 F Dornoch, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Serv
Occ: Kitchen Maid
Mary CAMPBELL U 18 F Creich, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Serv
Occ: Laundry Maid
Anne SOUTER U 22 F Aloes, Elgin, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: House Maid
Jane DUNCAN U 21 F Keithhall, Aberdeen, Scotland Rel: Serv
Occ: Stillroom Maid
Catherine ROSS U 21 F Alnes, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Scullery Maid
George T. KETLEY U 20 M London, Middlesex, England
Rel: Serv
Occ: Footman
William CHRISTIE U 17 M Aberlour, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Footman

Here's John and Cecelia in 1851:

BERTRAM John Head M M 47 Farm Steward East Lothian - Ormiston
BERTRAM Cecil Wife M F 39 East Lothian - Ormiston
BERTRAM John Son U M 16 Ag Labourer Midlothian - Borthwick
BERTRAM Thomas Son U M 13 Scholar Midlothian - Borthwick
BERTRAM James Son - M 11 Scholar Midlothian - Crichton
BERTRAM William Son - M 5 Scholar East Lothian - Ormiston
RUSSELL William Servnt - M 15 Ag Labourer Midlothian - Temple


If The Butler Did It!

Dwelling: Butlers House Ormiston Hall
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 2 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James LIDDLE M 36 M Corstorphine, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Butler Domestic Serv
Jessie LIDDLE M 36 F Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Isabella LIDDLE U 3 F Pencaitland, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Daur
James S. LIDDLE U 2 M Pencaitland, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son
William LIDDLE 8 m M Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland

Dwelling: Coachmans House Ormiston Hall
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 2 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Robert MEIKLE M 52 M Lasswade, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Coachman Serv
Christina MEIKLE M 51 F Dornock, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Wife
John MEIKLE U 21 M Dornock, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Mason
George MEIKLE U 17 M Dornock, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Robert MEIKLE U 13 M Dornock, Sunderland, Durham, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Christina MEIKLE U 12 F Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Joseph MEIKLE U 10 M Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar

Dwelling: Coachmans House Ormiston Hall
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 2 Page 2
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William GILFILLAN U 25 M Carstairs, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Gamekeeper

John Bertram (Peter's Brother) was next.

Dwelling: Ormiston Hall South Gate House
Census Place: Ormiston, Haddington, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224027 GRO Ref Volume 715 EnumDist 2 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John BERTRAM M 46 M Cranston, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Forester
Jane BERTRAM M 45 F Cranston, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife

So it's VERY possible that Isabella worked in the big house and got "Into Trouble" but you may never find John Bertram Hooper's father unless John married and his mother had let him into the secret. But it doesn't look like her family were well off, perhaps Peter and family were "Paid" to move away to avoid a wee scandal.

[Andy]

By the way the Isabella Bertram you found isn't your despite having a Henderson Uncle. It's just a coincidence.

That Isabella was still with her uncle in 1881:

Dwelling: Oxenford Home Farm
Census Place: Cranston, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0223986 GRO Ref Volume 680 EnumDist 1 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Adam HENDERSON M 71 M Hobkirk, Roxburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Shepherd
Isabella HENDERSON M 69 F Newlands, Peeble, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Isabella BERTRAM U 31 F Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Niece
Occ: Domestic Servant

There is no sign of your Bertram family in Scotland in 1871

Here are all the Peters:

1 1871 BERTRAM PETER M 15 ORPHIR ORKNEY 023/00 003/00 004 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 1871 BERTRAM PETER M 43 MILTON GLASGOW CITY LANARK 644/07 019/07 014 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 1871 BERTRAM PETER M 17 PARTICK GLASGOW CITY LANARK 646/03 014/03 038 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
4 1871 BERTRAM PETER M 48 PARTICK GLASGOW CITY LANARK 646/03 014/03 038 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
5 1871 BERTRAM PETER M 53 LASSWADE MIDLOTHIAN 691/00 002/00 002 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
6 1871 BERTRAM PETER M 48 NORTH BERWICK EAST LOTHIAN 713/00 001/00 010 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

None fit.

I can't see them in England either.

[laura140281]

Andy I can't thanks you enough I can't believe how much info yoy have found for me! This will keep me going for a long time1 It's so exciting when you find new members of your family so you can imagine how I feel times 100! I am ordering John Betrams(born 1876) marriage certificate to see if there is a father named. I will definitely keep you posted. Once again thanks a million!

Laura

[Andy]

Hi Laura,

Hope I'm not taking the fun of it away from you too much but, as other "Board Members" (or should that be BORED members) will tell you, when I come across a fairly difficult puzzle I sometimes get carried away.

I'm usually quite good at finding people in censuses but Peter et al had me stumped.

I tried every trick in the book (and some that aren't in the book) to massage the 1871 Scottish census. NADA!

Okay, if they're not in Scotland and we know they went to England I tried there too. Zip!

I don't give up easily so did a first name search for all Scottish born Peters (no surname) there were just over 400 in the 1871 English census.
About three quarters way through I came across a Peter Perham born about 1831 living in Monk Wearmouth Shore and had a wee look.

13 Charles Street, Monk Wearmouth Shore

Peter Bertram 40 Warehouseman born Scotland
Jane wife 41
Isa S. Daughter Unmarried 19 Domestic Servant
Cecil K. Daughter 16
Helen Daughter 15 Scholar
Elizth Daughter 12 Scholar
John Son 8 Scholar

Of course this now means that the family weren't "Bought Off" to avoid a scandal since they had moved well before Isabella got pregnant.

Do you have John and Isabella's marriage cert? Does it give Isabella's address?

So still no closer to the father of John but from here on in it should be VERY easy to get back to the mid 1700s particularly for the Bertrams and Keppies

[mesklin]

Andy

Nobody's bored. Keep this up as long as you like. Fascinating.

Mesklin