Illegitimacy

cadmium · Post by **cadmium** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:10 pm

I'm pretty unfamiliar with how illegitimacy was documented in Scotland, other than hearing about the fact that marriage apparently legitimised it. So apologies if this is a stupid question! But I've got the death certificate of a Janet CRAWFORD nee MCKELLAR in front of me, registered in Cumlodden (1875) aged 58, and I'm wondering if the way it's written means she's the bastard or if it's her husband:

Janet
Crawford

Widow of
James Crawford
Labourer
(Illegitimate)

& parents:

Colin Mckellar
Farmer
Mary Mckellar
formerly a
Domestic Servant

If it IS Janet: the mother is listed as a Mckellar, does this mean that even if the parents married afterwards the child is still branded illegitimate for life? Also it seems strange that the mother's maiden name isn't given. I've had cases before where they've had the same maiden name but it's always said something like 'X Mckellar Ms Mckellar'. If anyone can illuminate me or offer any suggestions I'd be very grateful.

Thanks in advance!

Mi

PS. I tried searching on the IGI, but only found a 1817 Janet Mckellar with parents Peter and Mary.. it seems it is her but not sure about the legitimacy or why the name change of the father.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:14 pm

Hi Mi
Working from what you have posted and not having seen the original,

and I'm wondering if the way it's written means she's the bastard or if it's her husband

I'd think that suggests that she was illegitimate.

does this mean that even if the parents married afterwards the child is still branded illegitimate for life?

In Scotland, no. If the parents subsequently married, the child was no longer illegitimate.

Colin Mckellar, Farmer
Mary Mckellar , formerly a Domestic Servant

Makes it sound as if that was her own surname. Maybe just coincidence that the surnames were the same. I' be off to look at the person in quesiton in as many census entries as I could to what she turns up as...

Best wishes
Lesley

cadmium · Post by **cadmium** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:16 pm

For those interested, I bought the birth certificate for her but can't read it. I've uploaded it to the gallery in case anyone can read it better.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:21 pm

Here it is
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1539

Looks like it says "lawful daughter" to me...but father seems to be Peter..?

"Janet lawful duaghter of Peter McKellar and Mary McKellar in Bal....[placename] and [on to next one...]
Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **SarahND** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:27 pm

Hi Lesley,
I get a blank with that link

Regards,
Sarah

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:31 pm

LesleyB wrote:
does this mean that even if the parents married afterwards the child is still branded illegitimate for life?
In Scotland, no. If the parents subsequently married, the child was no longer illegitimate.

With one significant proviso, that they were both legally free to marry at the time (of birth / conception?).

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:33 pm

SarahND wrote:Hi Lesley,
I get a blank with that link
Regards,
Sarah

It looks to be approved and in the correct section of the Gallery. Is it still blank to you?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1539

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:42 pm

Hi again,
The blank has been filled!

I wonder if I tried to look at it as it was being posted?

Yes, I would agree with Lesley that Janet was "lawful" and the father is Peter, not Colin.

k

All the best,
Sarah

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:32 am

I don't know if this will help or confuse but it looks like Jannet's daughter Mary was living with her aunt in 1871.

Name: Mary Crawford
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relationship: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Glassary, Argyll
Parish Number: 511
Civil Parish: Glassary
County: Argyll
Address: Strone
ED: 5
Page: (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 77
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1851_109
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Crawford 23
Mary Crawford 7
Donald Ferguson 28
Charles McKellar 14
Colin McKellar 16
Duncan McKellar 22
Mary McKellar 56 (Looks like Mary's maiden name was McKellar

although I can't find a death on SP)
Mary McKellar 18
Niel McKellar 22
John Mitchel 3
Duncan Munro 21

Whether or not she is Mary's, or her husband John's, relation might be worth investigating.

Regards,
Annette

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun May 04, 2008 11:09 am

Hi Mi,

(1) I would take the term illegitimate to be referring to Janet, not her late husband.

(2) I take it that Colin Mckellar and Mary Mckellar were never married beacuse:
. . . (a) no maiden surname is given for her and
. . . (b) an occupation is given for her (that is normally only given for women when they are single) and
. . . (c) Janet is described as illegitimate.

(3) My feeling is that the OPR birth is probably not for this same person beacuse:
. . . (a) different father's name and
. . . (b) the parents were married (birth was described as lawful).

Incidentally (having had a look at the certificate),
(4) Did you notice the death above Janet's. This child was quite possibly related to Janet (a grand-daughter?)
. . . _____ Campbell (single) ; 1875, February 12th, 9h P.M., Brenchollie, Cumlodden; age 12 hours; female;
. . . Father: Duncan Campbell, Ploughman; Mother: Catherine Campbell, M.S. Crawford;
. . . No cause of death given; Informant: Duncan Munro, Neighbour, Brencholly;
. . . Registered: 1875, March 6th at Auchindrain, Edw<sup>d</sup> MCallum
. . . (a) same address
. . . (b) mother's M.S. Crawford (Janet's married surname)
. . . (c) same informant on same date of registration.

All the best,

AndrewP