GROS Data.....

[JustJean]

Hi everyone
I've a wee question on some findings of mine today. Upon running a Marriage Search in Ayr on the Sturgeon surname I got my 2 pages of results. 3 out of the list of entries appear as follow:

1908 LOCKHART WILLIAM STURGEON JESSIE MAYBOLE AYR 605/00-0010
1911 LOCKHART CHARLES STURGEON MARY MAYBOLE AYR 605/00/0010
1908 KERR WILLIAM STURGEON JESSIE MAYBOLE AYR 605/00-0010

And now for the question part.......1 and 3 are actually the same event. I've bought the image and William's mother's mn is KERR. He wasn't illegitimate on the image though so have no idea why it is indexed twice. Number 2 is actually a brother to William and a neice to Jessie so a whole different event and yes I purchased that Cert too....yet it has the same GROS Data number on this listing......how can that be?

[DavidWW]

Jean Doll (Gleswegian style greeting )

There has to be something on that 1908 record to justify the indexing under both LOCKHART and KERR.

How's about posting the image ???..............

Davie
still on the way to Papakura

[AndrewP]

1908 LOCKHART WILLIAM STURGEON JESSIE MAYBOLE AYR 605/00-0010
1911 LOCKHART CHARLES STURGEON MARY MAYBOLE AYR 605/00/0010
1908 KERR WILLIAM STURGEON JESSIE MAYBOLE AYR 605/00-0010

And now for the question part.......1 and 3 are actually the same event. I've bought the image and William's mother's mn is KERR. He wasn't illegitimate on the image though so have no idea why it is indexed twice. Number 2 is actually a brother to William and a neice to Jessie so a whole different event and yes I purchased that Cert too....yet it has the same GROS Data number on this listing......how can that be?

As Davie says, the certificate of 1 and 3 should yield some information of why the birth is indexed under both surnames. If my memory serves me correctly, they stopped marking certificates "illegitimate" in 1903. So does the certificate show the mother's name as Kerr, ms Lockhart (or Lockhart, ms Kerr); or was it marked Lockhart or Kerr (no ms)?. If no "ms", then take it that they weren't married (hence illegitimate, but not marked as such). Or they may have married after the birth (but that was sometimes noted as Kerr (later Lockhart); or Lockhart (later Kerr). His birth certificate should confirm the answer (and also his parents' marriage certificate).

As for item 2, by coincidence it is entry 10 in the register of marriages for Maybole, Ayrshire (Registration Distrct 605), but in a different year. Each year a new book is started, so no problem with both being 605/00-0010. More accurately, consider them as M1908-605/00-0010 and M1911-605/00-0010, then the question disappears.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[DavidWW]

William LOCKHART's parents are shown as Robert LOCKHART and Jane KERR, - i.e. they are not shown as married as she is not shown as Jane LOCKHART MS KERR.............. (always assuming that the minister/registrar didn't mess up....)

Davie

[JustJean]

Hi guys!

As usual...quick with the answers!!

Thank you Andrew for the explanation that each year starts a new book. Never realized that Just an odd thing then that that both were #10's

and Davie....howzitgaun BigMan

I'm looking at the images and now see where I led myself astray! The one of William and Jessie lists his parents as you stated....Robert Lockhart and Jane Kerr with no mn designation. The reason this didn't jump out at me......Jessie's parents are named the same way James Sturgeon and Mary Martin. On the image of Charles and Mary.....Charles is obviously the younger as his mom is now Jean Lockhart mn Kerr....and I already knew Miss Mary's mom was a single mother afterwards married to a Templeton. There you have it! I didn't dig deeper into the Lockhart family as it's only secondary at the moment. Still got way too many fish to catch

Thanks again
Jean

[sporran]

Hello Jean,


Jane's death in 1936 at Penicuik has her married to Robert Lockhart, and there is a marriage in 1881 at Durisdeer, Dumfries of Robert Lockhart, shepherd (same occupation as stated on William's marriage) and Jane Kerr. However, I have not yet been able to find William's birth under Lockhart or Kerr, or the family in 1891 to show where William was born.

I am off to watch the Grand Prix and the magnificent Roger Federer in the tennis, but I shall return later for a further rummage in the records.


Regards,

John
on his way to the TV

[JustJean]

Thanks for that sporran-John Ah'm hopin' yer trip to th' TV disnae tak sae loong as th' banna boat to Papakura

Best wishes
Jean

[sporran]

Hello Jean,


all is well: Roger Federer won and I found your man.

The Registrar (not even the Assistant) in 1908 should have had his wrists slapped. He should have recorded both mothers with their married names, ms maiden. James Sturgeon and Mary Martin were married in 1867.

The indexer for the 1908 marriage was perfectly correct in putting down both Lockhart and Kerr for his surnames based on the record in front of him.

I found young William Lockhart in Crawfordjohn Lanarkshire in the 1891 census, showing that he was born at Leadmills. Indeed he was, in 1883.


Regards,

John
now on his way to the garden

[JustJean]

Do tell!! The pall of indecency has been lifted....Rejoice!! [-o<

Just goes to prove...things aren't always as bad as they seem

Thanks for your help John!

Jean