Puzzled as to why Orr ancestor was given unusual name

[sheilago]

I wondered if anyone could throw light on this puzzle. My great grandfather was born 31.8.1873 in Lochwinnoch, the first child of John Orr and Catherine Taylor of Ardrossan (born 2 months after their marriage). He seems to be part of a line of John and William Orrs :the first sons always being called John or William. However my great grandfather was named William Jones Armstrong Orr and he always used this long name , signing himself William JA Orr on all the records. As far as I can see there are no Armstrongs or Jones in the family and most of the family are named with only one first name. I wondered if he could actually have been the child of an Armstrong or if it was usual to name a child after someone well known. Armstrong does seem to be an Ayrshire name.

[speleobat2]

Hello sheilago,

The Scottish often followed traditional naming patterns--except when they didn't!! If you go to the main Forum page, then click on Scottish People and on the thread "Trying to understand a given name", you will find a discussion of why some family names don't seem to have a logical explanation.

Carol

[Liz Turner]

Hi there

I don't think there can be a definitive answer to your question, however - the names Armstrong and Orr still belong to families living in the village of Lochwinnoch. (I was born there).

The Scottish naming pattern was a tradition, but not something that was set in stone, so it's not uncommon to find in families that names were repeated over generations, but not necessarily in the strict order that some folks assume happened. Using the naming pattern as a guide is the best bet and it can sometimes help in searching for a child who may have appeared at a particular point, but you shouldn't rely on it solely as a guide to names in a family.

My own family, over several generations, kept to the same forenames but they were not always used in the pattern. However, I am fortunate that they used mother's maiden names as middle names on many occasions, which makes things easier in finding the missing! Families did also include as middle names for children, the names of important local people, for example the minister or someone who had made local news. The time period you are searching in was one where newspapers were commonly available and brought another source of interesting names to be added into families. (Think of the late Victorian era and all the empire-building and expansion that was going on; battles being fought etc., that's how we ended up with places like Ladysmith Avenue and Mafeking Road etc.).

If you are interested in the village of Lochwinnoch itself, you might like to visit the village web site at:- http://www.lochwinnoch.info/
Some years ago the local WRI wrote a book on the history of the village - I have a copy of this (well to be more accurate I think Russell has borrowed it), and could perhaps let you have more information if you are interested.

Good luck with your search.

Liz

[sheilago]

Thanks to the two contributors above. I have begun looking to see if the name could have come from outwith the family:found a famous minister with the name William Jones Armstrong, but he seems to have been in Antrim all his life, so can't think that an Ayrshire family would have named a child after him. I have still to find out if my g grandfather's grandfather, also William perhaps had Armstron Jones in his name, but he would have been born early 19th C so inofrmation is more difficult to find. Researching marriages of parents siblings will take some time, but as someone said these puzzles are what makes family history so addictive!
I have had a look at the Lochwinnoch site, which is very interesting. My g grandfather was born at Kerse, Lochwinnoch and I also found out that there's a Kerse Farm B&B operating now, which shows a picture of an old looking farmhouse - I must find out if it's the same place. I have searched census records for any armstrongs in Scotland around the time, but haven't come up with any likely candidates yet. Thanks for the tips - I'll keep looking.

[Russell]

Hi Sheilago

Liz is our resident Lochwinnoch 'expert' (she'll probably flip at that description )

I do have her copy of the Lochwinnoch history and have checked through it to see if the names Armstrong & Jones appeared anywhere. They don't, but the list of ministers in the three churches - Established and Dissenting - is not complete not is there any record of the various mill owners who might have employed the family and had the privilige of having a child named after them.
Sometimes the school Dominie had his name borrowed as a mark of appreciation and again there is no list of the holders of the post for the various schools which were open in the parish in the 1800's.
Perhaps you could trace him through the records of the Parish Board which are probably now with the NAS in Edinburgh.
What religious persuasion did the family follow ? church records may still exist.
What was his father's occupation ? If a worker - who did he work for ?

This is where the faint-hearted give up. The determined book places in Edinburgh once they have located possible additional sources.

Russell

[Liz Turner]

Nice to hear from you Russell! I've still got the book you let me have a loan of too!

Sheila - there were and still are very close links between Ayrshire/Renfrewshire and Antrim and other parts of Ulster. My own paternal family moved back and forwards from the mid-1800s to early 1900s between both areas. The links were very strong for reasons of economy and employment, as well as famine. There were a lot of small weavers and some mills in Lochwinnoch, supplying the bigger markets in Glasgow. There was a discussion about this a year or so ago on TS. I'll do a search and put the link to it in here for you later.

Later: http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ochwinnoch
The Kerse farm is almost certainly the same as the one you refer to and as farms tend to stay in families there is a good chance that you might be able to find information from some of the older residents of the village. I've lived in the area all my life (almost!) and there is certainly one Orr family that I am aware of and also an Armstrong family. Both of these families have been in the area for a pretty long time. My mum can recall them and she's lived in the village since the 1930s.

It's worth trying a post on the village web site. Give as much information as you have about your family, with dates, times, locations and you never know - someone might reply.

Liz