No birth,1 marriage 1 census no death help!!

Birth, Marriage, Death

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courtneylion
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: glasgow

No birth,1 marriage 1 census no death help!!

Post by courtneylion » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:27 pm

I am looking for an elusive ancester (1 of many) in particular Peter Mclaren b 1800-1 Killin Perth can find no opr birth ,marriedKillin Parish 31/7/1831 to Margaret McIntosh b Kenmore 1804-5 in they had 3 children born in Killin 1831-1835 they had 2 other children 2 born 1840-45 Trinity Gask Peter jnr b September 1840 can find no birth for him either they were in Farmton Trinity Gask census 1841 Margaret died 26/4/1856 in Feus Auchterarder her son John registered the death not her husband .last info i have on Peter was he was recorded as not being deceased on his son Peters marriage certificate in South Leith 15/7/1870 i have been looking for him on and off for 3 years now and don't know where else to go please help

LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:35 pm

Hi Courtneylion
they were in Farmton Trinity Gask census 1841 Margaret died 26/4/1856 in Feus Auchterarder
What was Peter's occupation? So no sign of them in 1851? A search on SP suggests there are 2 Peter M*clarens aged between 48-52 with a Margaret on the same page, one in Blairgowie, the other in Comrie.... any chance one might be yours, though neither may be your one, and boh are in parishes some distance from the places mentioned - have you been able to eliminate these ones?

Peter Junior you think is born Trinity Gask, can you give us the name and approx. date and place of birth for the other child, please? I take it these are the three at Killin on IGI?

CHRISTIAN MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 18 JUN 1831 Killin, Perth, Scotland

JOHN MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 APR 1833
JOHN MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 APR 1833 Killin, Perth, Scotland

MARY MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 MAY 1835
MARY MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 MAR 1838 Killin, Perth, Scotland
last info i have on Peter was he was recorded as not being deceased on his son Peters marriage certificate in South Leith 15/7/1870
Not always reliable - I spent a lot of time, effort & money once trying to find someone who I thought was still alive based on her not being stated as deceased on a marriage....

Best wishes
Lesley

courtneylion
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: glasgow

Post by courtneylion » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:11 pm

Hi Lesley thanks for your prompt reply I have been in contact with a descendant of Peters sister Margaret and he gave me some info I don't have the census for 1851 but he says the family were in Kings Mills Auchterarder and that there were another 2 additions Cathrean b abt 1832 and David b abt 1850 I havent seen it so don't know if this is my Peter he also has Peter on a census for 1861 Dunblane Lower Whitestone also 1871 same address I didn't want to confuse the issue just in case the info I had which I couldn't confirm was wrong ,the info I really need is a birth or death which might give a parents name once again thanks Lesley

courtneylion
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: glasgow

Post by courtneylion » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:16 pm

Thanks Lesley I replied when I only had half of your message sorry Peters occ was carting contractor and the other child was Margaret b abt 1845 cheers

LesleyB
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Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:23 pm

Hi Coutney
Best thing would be to go and look on Ancesty (free access at the Mitchell Library) or look on SP for the 1851 census (it is not on Freecen yet) to check if the one you think it might be (at Auchterarder ) looks like it is your Peter. You should be able to tell by ages, places of birth, occupation, kids at home etc.
But I see we have looked at these ones before, and maybe not...
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ght=#98604
Did you check the death that Annette suggested at Auchterarder? was it not your one?

Best wishes
Lesley

courtneylion
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: glasgow

Post by courtneylion » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:57 pm

Thanks Lesley no I did not check the one Annette said as i pm'd her and asked her what was it that made her think that the Peter from Dunblane was not my Peter and she never answered me so I decided not to go that route as all info I have point to him being born 1800 and i have done wildcards and all variants of spelling of Mclaren many thanks for your help

LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:40 pm

Hi courtneylion
so I decided not to go that route as all info I have point to him being born 1800
The problem with deaths is that the person who has just died does not give the infomation which appears on the form, the death informant does, so it depends on who the death informant is as to how assurate the information is. Ages are often not accuate on deaths.

But Annette seems to have seen Peter in the 1851 census:
According to the Ancestry 1851 census Peter was born around 1795.
All we can hope to do here is suggest places you might look and try to help - it is of course entirely up to you if you wish to follow up what has been suggested or not.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB
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Post by LesleyB » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:30 pm

A thought occurred to me based on what you have stated..
No birth,1 marriage 1 census no death help!!
all info I have point to him being born 1800
Am I right in thinking that the only document you have which shows Peter's age is the 1841 census? And am I right in guessing he is shown as aged 40 on this? And this is why you are sure he was born in 1800/01?

I don't know if you are aware of this but the instructions to the enumerators in 1841 stated that ages were to be rounded down to the nearest 5, so someone who was beteen the age of 40-44 (and three quarters!) would be listed as aged 40.

So, if your Peter is listed as aged 40 in the 1841 census, that puts his birth anywhere between 1796-1801.

There is a Peter McLaren on IGI born in 1799 at Killin, but I'm guessing you have checked this one out already.

Best wishes
Lesley

killearnan
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Location: Western Hills, Maine

Post by killearnan » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:00 pm

LesleyB wrote:The problem with deaths is that the person who has just died does not give the information which appears on the form, the death informant does, so it depends on who the death informant is as to how accurate the information is. Ages are often not accurate on deaths.
Definitely true!

Our modern assumption tends to be that the written records are (almost) always accurate, but -- off the top of my head:

1) I spent months looking for a woman whose maiden name in her marriage record was Little. ](*,) Really struggled to place her in the local family with that name :? Almost a year later, I was looking at a deed for another family and find her listed by her married name. Turns out she belonged with a family concentrated a couple towns away and her father's last name was Small :lol:

2) My great grandfather Peter [ne McGee] Jamieson evidently stunk at names :shock: He listed his mother on his marriage record as Helen Norrie, but she was actually Helen Cassidy; since she also appeared in some records as Eleanor, I'm guessing that her nickname may have been Norrie.

3) My most recent example (figured this one out just this week [many-greens] ....yeah for naming patterns and using family names as middle names!)..... Same great grandfather listed on his father's death record his grandfather as Thomas Jamieson and grandmother as (-----) Hislop. Turns out his grandfather father was Robert and his grandmother was Janet Hislop, who was listed in 1861 as living with her brother Thomas Hislop. Uncle Thomas died late enough that my great-grandfather likely had vague memories of him, but his grandfather died almost 30 years before Peter was born.... so the mix-up is plausible.
LesleyB wrote:I don't know if you are aware of this but the instructions to the enumerators in 1841 stated that ages were to be rounded down to the nearest 5, so someone who was between the age of 40-44 (and three quarters!) would be listed as aged 40.
Lesley is also quite right on this.......and I've seen cases where someone who was (say) 52 in 1841 evidently shaved :roll: a couple years off his/her age, so got listed as 45.

The issue of informants also comes in here are well. If a 12yo son answered the census taker, he may not have gotten great-uncle James's age or the right birthplace for his oldest sister who has been married for 20 years and who he's never shared a house with quite right - and the rounding & county level birthplaces in 1841 only compound the problem.
McGee (Donegal to Edinburgh), Jamieson/Guthrie (Leith), Keddie (Peebles, Galashiels), Little (Cavers, Traquair), Arthur (Galashiels) , Paterson (Edinburgh, with occ. spells in Stirling, Greenock, Leith), Ralston (Glasgow to Stirling), Greig (Elgin)

nelmit
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:48 pm

courtneylion wrote:Thanks Lesley no I did not check the one Annette said as i pm'd her and asked her what was it that made her think that the Peter from Dunblane was not my Peter and she never answered me so I decided not to go that route as all info I have point to him being born 1800 and i have done wildcards and all variants of spelling of Mclaren many thanks for your help
Hello again,

I'm sorry I don't recall ever receiving a PM and it wouldn't be like me not to reply to one. Like Lesley said we can only try and suggest ways of finding info.

Here is who I think is your Peter in 1851 living at Aucterarder from Ancestry which is why I put Peter senior's birth year around 1795-

Peter McLaren 56 born Premnons :? Perthshire
Marget McLaren 45
Cathrean McLaren 19
Peter McLaren 10
Marget McLaren 6
David McLaren 5 Mo

Is this the family you found in 1851?

Regrds,
Annette

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