Hit a Brick Wall - Scottish Birth Records

[donnab]

Hello:

I wonder if someone could give me advice on how I might get a birth certificate or confirm parent’s names for someone who was born in Scotland when I have the date of birth. I have the date of birth for my GG-Grandmother Annie Liddell and her brother Robert and sister Jane from the Canadian Census but can’t seem to find record of any of them prior to coming to Canada. I can’t even find a Scottish census report for any of them. One of the census noted that Jane came to Canada in 1867 don't know if that would be under her married name of McIntosh however.

I have spouse info (no dates of marriage), their children, grandchildren info but can’t find record of any of them prior to coming to Canada. Their parents names are believed to be Robert Liddell and Ellen Kennedy, I can’t even find a marriage certificate for them. I even tried various spellings for the surname. The reason why I want get the certificate is so I can confirm the parent’s names. I have searched Scottish people, family search, and ancestry but have not found record of any of them, I even looked at birthdays other than the ones I had and nothing.

I’ve paid a lot looking for them and found nothing before I put out anymore money I thought I would see if there is another way to try and find them, maybe through Church records, here’s the thing I don’t even know which part of Scotland they are all from. The death certificate indicates that they were born in Scotland, and so were both parents Roberts confirms their names.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Donna

[nelmit]

Hello:

I wonder if someone could give me advice on how I might get a birth certificate or confirm parent’s names for someone who was born in Scotland when I have the date of birth. I have the date of birth for my GG-Grandmother Annie Liddell and her brother Robert and sister Jane from the Canadian Census but can’t seem to find record of any of them prior to coming to Canada.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Donna

What were the years of birth Donna?

Regards,
Annette

Later..it's ok I see Annie's is 1843 from your other post.

[grannysrock]

Donna

Looking back at your previous posts* , I wondered if you still might not have Annie and John's marriage ?

* viewtopic.php?p=31218&highlight=#31218

I took a look at Annie and John Bagley's family on the 1901 Canadian census , and it appears that their son James was born in England . So I took at look the transcribed indexes for England and Wales at www.freebmd.org.uk and there is a potential marriage of John Bagley to Ann Liddel , at Poplar in the 2nd quarter of 1863 , which would fit in well . I say potential marriage because the index for this era always includes 2 couples - you would need to order the certificate I think to know for certain . But if correct , it should confirm their father's names and occupations.
( Not mother's names though - not as good as Scottish certs ! ).
Interestingly there is a James Begley birth registered in Poplar in the 4th quarter of 1868

If you have this already never mind .
Regards
Sally

[SarahND]

Hi Donna,

I can’t even find a Scottish census report for any of them.

This family has all the right names. Are the ages more or less correct?

1851
273 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian
Robert Liddle, 34, Head, born New Monkland, Lanarkshire [New Moulkand, Lanairdrie], Railway Labourer
Ellen Liddle, 27, Wife, born St Enoch, Glasgow
Ann Liddle, 9, Daughter, born Canongate, Edinburgh
Jane Liddle, 6, Daughter, born Canongate, Edinburgh
Robert Liddle, 4, Son, born Canongate, Edinburgh
John Liddle, 2, Son, born Canongate, Edinburgh

All the best,
Sarah

[grannysrock]

Hi Donna (and Sarah) )h - its me again.
Do you have the death registrations of Annie's siblings Robert and Jane ?
On Ancestry there is a Robert Liddell who died in 1929 in Lippincott St, York County, Ontario aged 83 , whose parents were Robert Liddell and Ellen Kennedy , both of Scotland. This Robert was employed in bridge construction and the informant was his son John. Seeing Sarah's post, I am quite curious to know if this is your Annie's brother.


Sally

[SarahND]

Hi Sally,
That sure looks like him Hope he's Donna's.

Robert, Ellen, and young Robert & John are all in Liverpool by 1861, at 2 Union Square.
Robert's birthplace is written in as New Monkland, Ellen's as Glasgow and the two boys as Edinburgh.

So if this is the correct family, we have the move to England documented by the census, which strengthens the case for the English marriage.

Cheers,
Sarah

[SarahND]

Back again...

A Robert Liddel died first quarter 1872 in Poplar, age 54...

Searching for them in 1871, it appears that Robert is mis-written as John. Surely this is the same couple?

4 Pur Terrace, Poplar, Tower Hamlets, London
John Liddle, Head, Laborer, born Scotland
Ellen Liddle, Wife, 48, born Glasgow

Cheers,
Sarah

[grannysrock]

Again from www.freebmd.org.uk

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1863 (>99%)
Liddle Jane Poplar 1c 1229
McIntosh James Poplar 1c 1229

This surely has to be Annie's sister ( I note that James And Jane McIntosh are neighbours of Annie and John Beyley in the 1881 census and their oldest child Jane aged 15 was born in England) and if they are in Poplar, I think it's nigh on certain that Robert and Ellen are Annies' parents.

So back to your original question Donna - why no birth record ?
Well Annie was born in pre-statutory registration times . So there's no guarantee you'll find any birth or baptism record. . The baptismal records on ScotlandsPeople are the "Established Church of Scotland" ones- where they have survived. Records from other religious denominations are sometimes to be found at the National Archives. I believe some of these will come on line also in the nearish future , but even if you don't ever find a baptismal record, if you can prove annie's ancestry in other ways ....

Sally

[donnab]

This is amazing Thank you ladies for all your help. I have been using the freebmd and have ordered many birth/marriage/death certificates over the last couple of months its amazing and has helped a lot but it never occurred to me to look there for the Liddell’s there since all documents I found confirm they were born in Scotland so that’s where I looked.

I can't believe you found an 1841 census I must be loosing my touch because I've been looking through census after census and found nothing.

I never looked at the neighbours for the census I really got to start doing that now, I found Jane because of info from a Church confirming that she and her husband were Godparents.

I think I know where John Liddell is also he lived on Lippincott with Robert.

I knew I came to the right place, thanks again for all your help.

Donna

[donnab]

Hi Donna (and Sarah) )h - its me again.
Do you have the death registrations of Annie's siblings Robert and Jane ?
On Ancestry there is a Robert Liddell who died in 1929 in Lippincott St, York County, Ontario aged 83 , whose parents were Robert Liddell and Ellen Kennedy , both of Scotland. This Robert was employed in bridge construction and the informant was his son John. Seeing Sarah's post, I am quite curious to know if this is your Annie's brother.

Sally

Hi Sally: Thanks again for your help, yes this is Annie's brother I found Annie's and Roberts but not Janes, not yet. I actually just found it about 3 days ago to confirm Annie's parents I have been searching for a very long time for her parents. I had made previous post thinking two other people might be her parents but confirmed that wasn't the case. I only found Robert because a funeral home called me with Roberts last name and address no first name I got that from other source a telephone directory and his death certificate. There is also a John Liddell that lived on the same Street as Robert so I'm thinking that might be his brother. I'm wondering if prehaps they all came to Canada including the parents now I'll have to look into that. You have been a great help.

Donna