Alexander Hogg - Baker or Gardener ?

[littaol]

Hi

I have a problem with a mix of 2 families, I think........

I am searching for the birth and death of Alexander Hogg and Janet Hume, but I am a little confused.

I have found the marriage in 1832, North Berwick, but it says nothing about parents.

In 1841:
Name: Alexander Hogg
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Civil parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: Grange Loan 9
Occupation: Gardener
Name Age
Alexander Hogg 30
Janet Hogg 25
Robert Hogg 1

1851:
Name: Alexander Hogg
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Where born: Stow, Midlothian
Parish Number: 693
Civil parish: Liberton
County: Midlothian
Occupation: Gardener
Alexander Hogg 48
Janet Hogg 40
Robert Hogg 19
James Hogg 9
George Hogg 9
Alexander Hogg 7
Agnes Hogg 5
Janes Hogg 2

1861
Name: Alexander Hogg
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Where born: Sten, Edinburgh
Civil parish: Liberton
County: Midlothian
Occupation: Ag Labourer
Alexander Hogg 50
James Hogg 19
George Hogg 19
Alexander Hogg 17
Agnes Hogg 15
Janet Hogg 13

As you can see, Janet is not with the family, but I have not found her death. In 1869, George Hogg marries, but the record says nothing about whether his parents are deceased.

In 1871, I do not find 'my' Alexander or Janet. I find another couple and also the death of a Alexander Hogg in 1883, but he was a retired baker and his wife was Janet, born Clapperton.

The age of Alexander varies in the different cencuses. Do you have experience with this and can tell me more about the reliability ?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

[SarahND]

Hi Litta,
I assume that it is Agnes Hogg who married Robert Learmonth whose parents interest you? In 1871 just before her death, she is married to Robert, daughter Janet H is in the house, and according to the Ancestry transcription, Agnes says she was born in Plantassie, Haddingtonshire. See the 1851 census for another version of the place name.

Going backwards, she is 11 in 1861, born Prestonkirk, Haddingtonshire. Alexander was born in North Berwick, which fits with the marriage place.

1861
Village of Athelstaneford, East Lothian
Alexander Hogg, 53, Head, born North Berwick, Haddingtonshire, Brewery Sledman
Janet Hogg, 54, Wife, born Prestonkirk, Haddingtonshire
William Hogg, 18, born Dirleton, Haddingtonshire, Railway Surface Man
James Hogg, 13, born Aberlady, Haddingtonshire, Scholar
Agnes Hogg, 11, Daughter, born Prestonkirk, Haddingtonshire
Margaret Hogg, 7, Daughter, born Athelstaneford, Haddingtonshire, Scholar

In 1851
Phantassie, Prestonkirk, East Lothian
Alexander Hogg, 43, Head, born North Berwick, Haddn, Ploughman
Janet Hogg, 44, Wife, born P Kirk, Haddn
Euphemia Hogg, 16, Daughter, born N Berwick, Haddn, Out Worker
John Hogg, 11, Son, born Dirleton, Haddn, Scholar
William Hogg, 9, Son, born Dirleton, Haddn, Scholar
Mary Hogg, 6, Daughter, born Dirleton, Haddn, Scholar
James Hogg, 4, Son, born Dirleton, Haddn
Agnes Hogg, 2, Daughter, born P Kirk, Haddn

Back to 1841, this looks like the family:

1841
Dirleton, East Lothian
Alexander Hogg, 30, born East Lothian, Ag Lab
Janet Hogg, 30, born East Lothian
George Hogg, 9, born East Lothian
Euphemia Hogg, 6, born East Lothian
Hugh Hogg, 3, born East Lothian
John Hogg, 1, born East Lothian
Clerk Shan, 15, born East Lothian, MS

So, if I have the family that interests you, Alexander was neither a baker nor a gardener!

Cheers,
Sarah

Later: In 1871 it looks like Janet has died and Alexander is now married to Ann and has two young children. They are living in Whitekirk and Tynninghame, East Lothian. The only child from the first marriage at home is Margaret. On Scotland's People there is a death of a Janet Hogg, other surname Hume, born 1807 +/- 3 years in Athelstaneford, East Lothian in 1861

[littaol]

I have to go through my records again

I'll be back !

Edited:
Thank you so much !! I had already realized that I was in the woods somehow, but not how much Now everything is in place.

[AndrewP]

Hi Litta,

If you search on ScotlandsPeople, you will find Janet's 1861 death certificate (a couple of months after the census). Alexander registers the death and declares himself as a gardener's labourer. SP indexes the mother's maiden surname as MOOD. On looking at the certificate, I can see where that came from, but I would take it as WOOD.

A search on SP shows the births (baptisms) of 6 siblings of Janet's, but no sign of Janet.

• 08/04/1790 HUME MARGARET HUGH HUME/EUPHAN WOOD FR650 F STENTON /EAST LOTHIAN 721/ 0010 0138
  05/02/1792 HUME AGNES HUGH HUME/EUPHAN WOOD FR652 F STENTON /EAST LOTHIAN 721/ 0010 0140
  09/11/1794 HUME JAMES HUGH HUME/EUPHANS WOOD FR656 M STENTON /EAST LOTHIAN 721/ 0010 0144
  22/12/1796 HUME HUGH HUGH HUME/EUPHAN WOOD FR659 M STENTON /EAST LOTHIAN 721/ 0010 0147
  04/08/1799 HUME ROBERT HUGH HUME/EUPHEMIA WOOD FR668 M STENTON /EAST LOTHIAN 721/ 0010 0156
  15/05/1803 HUME WILLIAM HUGH HUME/EUPHAN WOOD FR572 M DIRLETON /EAST LOTHIAN 705/ 0030 0085

The censuses that Sarah quoted above give an approximate birth year forJanet as 1807/1808.

Following Sarah's additional info above, you can find Alex(ander)'s 1862 marriage, and his 1895 death on ScotlandsPeople.

From the info on Alexander, the baptisms for him and some siblings can be found on ScotlandsPeople.

• 01/10/1797 HOGG ELISABETH GEORGE HOGG/KATHARINE RUNCIMAN FR930 F NORTH BERWICK /EAST LOTHIAN 713/ 0040 0139
  12/05/1799 HOGG MARGARET GEORGE HOGG/KATHARINE RUNCIMAN FR937 F NORTH BERWICK /EAST LOTHIAN 713/ 0040 0146
  11/09/1803 HOGG JANET GEORGE HOGG/KATHARINE RUNCIMAN FR955 F NORTH BERWICK /EAST LOTHIAN 713/ 0040 0164
  05/07/1808 HOGG ALEXANDER GEORGE HOGG/CATHARINE RUNCIMAN FR989 M NORTH BERWICK /EAST LOTHIAN 713/ 0040 0196

All the best,

AndrewP

[littaol]

Thanks to you too, Andrew! I did find Janet's death and so also her parents, but not the siblings.

As to not finding the birth of Janet Hume: Is that usual ?

[AndrewP]

As to not finding the birth of Janet Hume: Is that usual ?

Hi Litta,

Sadly, it is quite common. Before statutory registration started in Scotland in 1855, baptisms in any church should have been reported to the parish church, the (Established) Church of Scotland, to be written into the Parochial Register (that later became known as the OPR). In practice, baptisms from other churches were seldom recorded in the OPRs. Even those baptised in the Church of Scotland did not all make it into the register.

Some session clerks appear to have been less diligent in the upkeep of their registers. Some registers did not survive, or did not make it to New Register House when they were required to be sent in following the Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages Act (Scotland) 1854, in 1855 (registers up to 1819) and 1885 (registers from 1820 to 1854). Some children may not have been baptised.

So the short reply is never regards the OPRs as a complete list of the births (baptisms), marriages (declarations of banns) and deaths (burials) prior to 1855.

All the best,

AndrewP

[littaol]

In Norway and Denmark, we have also registration of confirmation (......what is that in English ? Sacrament ? ) Anyway, this registration is a good backup if the books containing the baptisms are lost, since the date of birth and the parents names are listed. Since the confirmation usually took place when the person was 14-20 years of age, this is a good source for the period between birth and marriage.

Is there any recordings of this kind of event in Scotland ?

Are there no census before 1841 ?

[AndrewP]

Hi Litta,

... confirmation... Is there any recordings of this kind of event in Scotland ?

There may be, amongst the Kirk Session records, or amongst the Catholic Archives, but not online at this time, and not a readily found or indexed source.

Are there no census before 1841 ?

The first census of Great Britain and Ireland was in 1801, and they have happened every 10 years since, with the exception of 1941 (World War II). All that survives of the pre-1841 censuses are household statistics - a headcount with no names. These are not considered to be useful in genealogy, so have never been made publicly available in the way that the ones since then have been. At the other end of the scale, the censuses (Scotland) are closed until they have passed 100 years old. It is planned that the 1911 census should be made available in early 2011. In England and Wales, the Freedom of Information Act was used to release that information early. In Scotland, the Census was deemed to be exempt from early access by the Freedom of Information Act.

All the best,

AndrewP

[littaol]

Thanks Andrew!

A shame that the 1801 Census contains so little information! Here in Norway it is probably the most important one.

You can see an example here:

Http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... r=11#nedre

In the 1865 Census also animals and crops are listed: http://digitalarkivet.uib.no//cgi-win/W ... amn=f61218

I understand now that this is luxury!

[SarahND]

In the 1865 Census also animals and crops are listed: http://digitalarkivet.uib.no//cgi-win/W ... amn=f61218

Very cool! I'm guessing that Poteter are potatoes

Are there any online records of Norwegians who left Norway for other countries?

Regards,
Sarah