John Paterson was born in 1879 and died in 1959, his death certificate citing him as widower of Jessie Cunningham or Cleland, whom he married in 1946. They were both aged 66 at the time of their marriage in Tradeston, Jessie Cunningham having been previously married to a Samuel Cleland.
I have just received their 1946 marriage extract, which doesn't give any details of Jessie Cunningham's previous marriage , although her marital status is shown as 'widow' and her signature appears as Jessie Cleland. John's marital status is cited as 'bachelor'. It was a civil ceremony in the Office of the Registrar for the District of Tradeston.
Although recorded as 'bachelor', it seems rather odd that John Paterson would have married for the first time at such an advanced age. Is that marriage extract absolutely conclusive or is it at all possible that he was married before and didn't disclose the fact? Was it mandatory to disclose a previous spouse on a marriage certificate of that era? In other words, could they be fudged?
Cheers,
Rodeo
Possible Falsified Marriage Certificate?
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nelmit
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Re: Possible Falsified Marriage Certificate?
Hello Rodeo,
You'll get many reports I'm sure confirming falsified marriage details.
I accidently discovered my husband's g grandfather, who stated he was a bachelor when he married the g grandmother, had been married just 5 years previously to somebody else. Never have found out what happened to the first wife.
I think one of the reasons of stating being single when you're not would be if the couple were estranged and they didn't know whether their spouse was alive or dead.
The only way you'll be able to fnd out is by finding another marriage for him .
If you're near a family history centre in Scotland it might be the easiest way to search (and that's only if he married in Scotland). Was he born here?
Regards,
Annette
You'll get many reports I'm sure confirming falsified marriage details.
I accidently discovered my husband's g grandfather, who stated he was a bachelor when he married the g grandmother, had been married just 5 years previously to somebody else. Never have found out what happened to the first wife.
I think one of the reasons of stating being single when you're not would be if the couple were estranged and they didn't know whether their spouse was alive or dead.
The only way you'll be able to fnd out is by finding another marriage for him .
If you're near a family history centre in Scotland it might be the easiest way to search (and that's only if he married in Scotland). Was he born here?
Regards,
Annette
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Rodeo
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Re: Possible Falsified Marriage Certificate?
Hi Annette
Yes, he was born in Scotland (Avondale) and had a sad childhood, he and his young sibings having been orphaned. After years of research, I finally found his death certificate recently and, subsequently, ordered his marriage extract. I was cheered to know that he had made a success of his life and lived to a relatively great age, given that his parents and siblings all died young and tragically.
I asked this question because of a previous experience, like yours, of having learned that my great grandmother declared her previous husband, who had disappeared, dead (after seven years) and remarried. My great aunt, however, met with the 'deceased' (her father) on numerous occasions but was sworn to secrecy, obliged not to tell her mother that her former husband was still very much alive. He was desperately unhappy in his marriage but loved his children with whom he clandestinely remained in contact. It was my great aunt who told me this many years ago. So, for all practical purposes, my great grandmother was unwittingly a bigamist, although she believed, until her death, that her vanished former husband was deceased.
My intuition is that John Paterson was NOT a bachelor when he married in 1946. However, the fact that the informant on his death certificate was his sister-in-law makes me wonder if he did, indeed, have any childrren.
Cheers,
Rodeo
Yes, he was born in Scotland (Avondale) and had a sad childhood, he and his young sibings having been orphaned. After years of research, I finally found his death certificate recently and, subsequently, ordered his marriage extract. I was cheered to know that he had made a success of his life and lived to a relatively great age, given that his parents and siblings all died young and tragically.
I asked this question because of a previous experience, like yours, of having learned that my great grandmother declared her previous husband, who had disappeared, dead (after seven years) and remarried. My great aunt, however, met with the 'deceased' (her father) on numerous occasions but was sworn to secrecy, obliged not to tell her mother that her former husband was still very much alive. He was desperately unhappy in his marriage but loved his children with whom he clandestinely remained in contact. It was my great aunt who told me this many years ago. So, for all practical purposes, my great grandmother was unwittingly a bigamist, although she believed, until her death, that her vanished former husband was deceased.
My intuition is that John Paterson was NOT a bachelor when he married in 1946. However, the fact that the informant on his death certificate was his sister-in-law makes me wonder if he did, indeed, have any childrren.
Cheers,
Rodeo
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paddyscar
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Re: Possible Falsified Marriage Certificate?
Hi Rodeo:
Who raised John after his parents and siblings died? Was he young enough to have used that surname at some point, or even that he may not have known his true origins, and then later used his own name when he found out? A lot of children were never told of their circumstances when they were taken in, or adopted into other families.
There is also a possibility that he may have been previously married by means of an 'irregular marriage', which may or may not have been registered. There is more info and discussion at http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... r+marriage
Hope this might help.
Frances
Who raised John after his parents and siblings died? Was he young enough to have used that surname at some point, or even that he may not have known his true origins, and then later used his own name when he found out? A lot of children were never told of their circumstances when they were taken in, or adopted into other families.
There is also a possibility that he may have been previously married by means of an 'irregular marriage', which may or may not have been registered. There is more info and discussion at http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... r+marriage
Hope this might help.
Frances
John Kelly (b 22 Sep 1897) eldest child of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett Kelly of Glasgow
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nelmit
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Re: Possible Falsified Marriage Certificate?
Where was he living in 1901?
A check at SP shows only 9 marriages of a John Paterson between 1901 - 1945 at Govan or Tradeston. Now I know he didn't necessarily marry in either of these districts (if indeed he married at all) but a search at a Family History Centre doesn't seem quite so daunting with those figures. Although ...................SP shows 426 in the whole of Lanarkshire in the same time frame!
Another avenue if you live in or near Glasgow is a check at the poorhouse applications at The Mitchell Library.
Regards,
Annette
A check at SP shows only 9 marriages of a John Paterson between 1901 - 1945 at Govan or Tradeston. Now I know he didn't necessarily marry in either of these districts (if indeed he married at all) but a search at a Family History Centre doesn't seem quite so daunting with those figures. Although ...................SP shows 426 in the whole of Lanarkshire in the same time frame!
Another avenue if you live in or near Glasgow is a check at the poorhouse applications at The Mitchell Library.
Regards,
Annette
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Rodeo
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Re: Possible Falsified Marriage Certificate?
Thanks, Frances and Annette.
Yes, Annette, that's John in the 1901 census living as a boarder in Govan. I have the poorhouse applications for his siblings (aged from 2 to 5 years of age) but John, who was 14 or 15 when they were orphaned, was seemingly spared a stint in the poorhouse.
Unfortunately, I couldn't be further away from Glasgow here in the antipodes. However, I'll have a look at those marriages in Govan on SP. I don't think he strayed far from that area in his lifetime, having died there in 1959.
Again, many thanks to you both.
Cheers,
Rodeo
Yes, Annette, that's John in the 1901 census living as a boarder in Govan. I have the poorhouse applications for his siblings (aged from 2 to 5 years of age) but John, who was 14 or 15 when they were orphaned, was seemingly spared a stint in the poorhouse.
Unfortunately, I couldn't be further away from Glasgow here in the antipodes. However, I'll have a look at those marriages in Govan on SP. I don't think he strayed far from that area in his lifetime, having died there in 1959.
Again, many thanks to you both.
Cheers,
Rodeo