Tree -Black James - Stalled.

[dogwhistler]

Hi,New to the site.Looks good,easy to manouvre around.Quare bit of useful info here.
I have recently hit a brick wall whilst tracing my family tree ,(Black Wigtownshire),therefore I need a wee bit of help,if possible.(All Presbyterian COS).
I have gotten back as far as GGG James Black and Sarah Smith marriage (Bann) in Kirkinner 16/04/1854.Both parties were possibly born in Kirkinner !
Using a wee bit of common sense,James Black would have been born c 1933. I've just found a possible link to a JB in the MOCHRUM ,Wigtownshire Freepages.
The page states - A James Black b 1833 (not stated), father -William Black and mother -Mary/Margaret Mcfie/Fie/Fee.I cannot find anything else to prove or
disprove descendancy from my family.James Black would have had a son (John Black b 1864 m Elizabeth/Isabella/Bella Boyd) at New Luce 1882,if it helps!.Any
thing on William Black or M.McFie would be helpful, and possibly help to eliminate/verify my search.WB JB possibly Ag. Labs.Ta,in advance. Keith. (N.I.).

[Russell]

Hi dogwhistler

Welcome to We have a good team on here who love a challenge and I think that the surname Black will give them that challenge

I tried the Dumfries and Galloway 1851 transcript

http://www.dgcommunity.net/historicalindexes

1851 Census

Only two entries for Kirkinner but Black was a very common name down that way when you select all parishes there are dozens of James Blacks.

Name: BLACK , James 
Address: Waterside(889) 
Parish: Kirkinner 
Relationship: son of Margaret Blac 
Marital Status: unmarried 
Occupation: EMPLOYED ON FARM 
Age: 39 
Born: Wigtown Wgt 
Household No: 3A/22
Name: BLACK , James 
Address: High Barness Farmhouse(889) 
Parish: Kirkinner 
Relationship: head of household 
Marital Status: married 
Occupation: FARMER (joint) of 349 acres employing 4 labourers and 1 boy 
Age: 73 
Born: Whithorn Wgt 
Household No: 6/35

There is only one Sarah Smith in Kirkinner

Name: SMITH , Sarah 
Address: Whauphill Smithy(889) 
Parish: Kirkinner 
Relationship: household of William 
Marital Status: unmarried 
Occupation: MAID kitchen 
Age: 19 
Born: Ireland 
Household No: 4/32

You have probably scrolled through the list a dozen times already so if you have any other snippets of information such as occupations, addresses, siblings it would help the search. here's hoping there will be a here.

Russell

[LesleyB]

Hi dogwhistler
..and welcome to Talking Scot

Using a wee bit of common sense,James Black would have been born c 1933. I've just found a possible link to a JB in the MOCHRUM ,Wigtownshire Freepages.
The page states - A James Black b 1833 (not stated), father -William Black and mother -Mary/Margaret Mcfie/Fie/Fee.

When and were did your James die? If in Scotland the death informant should have named the parents if he or she knew the names, so that would be a good place to start. Following the family through the census years should help narrow down the dates a bit.

IGI gives the following children to a couple of the same names as your two:
Father: James Black, Mother: Sarah Smith
JAMES BLACK Male Birth: 26 DEC 1856 Mochrum, Wigtown, Scotland
AGNES BLACK Female Birth: 14 MAY 1859 Mochrum, Wigtown, Scotland
WILLIAM SLOAN BLACK Male Birth: 14 DEC 1862 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland
JOHN BLACK Male Birth: 26 FEB 1865 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland
PETER BLACK Male Birth: 03 NOV 1867 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland
THOMAS BLACK Male Birth: 03 DEC 1870 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland
ALEXANDER BLACK Male Birth: 07 DEC 1871 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland
ELLEN BLACK Female Birth: 14 JUN 1874 Kirkinner, Wigtown, Scotland

- if the above are all the children they had, that would suggest that James father was James and his mother was Ellen - there is no Mary mentioned in the above list, but it may not be a comprehensive list.... again a look at the census would help.

Best wishes
Lesley

[dogwhistler]

Thanks to everyone for the interest shown.I knew things were going to be difficult with the BLACK surname all around Wigtownshire,pity the spelling wasn't a wee bit different than the norm.With regards to Sarah Smith,I am unsure where she was born,but I will check the National Archives Ireland,and see if anything pops up.It is possible she came from Ireland and maybe possible James Black did also.There seems to have been a lot of to and froing between the two countries.Re; James Black's death- I have searched Scotland's People, deaths and OPR online,but it's possible that the particular references I need may be missing.I would doubt that he moved to Ireland as he does not appear on the 1901 census with John and Isabella/Elizabeth Black and their daughter Jemina (Kirkinner, then Shettleston, Glasgow,and then moved to N.I. between 1900 and 1903),or in the 1911 Ireland census, John and Elizabeth/Isabella Black Ballygoland,Whitehouse Antrim -dau. Jemima and son Hector.Maybe it all ends here,or i need a break and time to think.Certainly like looking for a needle in a haystack.You do,do a fine job.Thanks for the effort.All the best. Keith.

[nelmit]

From a parent search at the IGI this looks like your James and Sarah in 1861 at Mochrum-

James Black 26 born Glasserton
Sarah Black 27 born Whithorn
Andrew Black 6
James Black 4
Agnes Black 2

They do have son John with them in 1871.

He is also very consistant with his age and apart form 1851 (Mochrum) which you'll find at dumgal he is living at Kirkinner on all census records.

This could be him with his with his parents in 1841 at Mochrum -

Thomas Black 35
Helen Black 30
Michael Black 15
Biddy Black 10
John Black 8
James Black 6
Andrew Black 2
Margaret Black 1

He is still alive at Kirkinner in 1891 and according to somebody at Ancestry he died in 1894.

Thomas is still alive in 1881 and (again according to somebody who looks as though they have researched this family well) he died in 1884. Both he and Helen were born at Ireland according to later census records.

Regards,
Annette

[nelmit]

Me again.

I can't locate John and family in 1901 to confirm this is the correct John.
Where did you find him in 1901?

Regards,
Annette

Later.....................it's ok I found them in Ireland and it does indeed appear to be the right family.

I assume you have looked at John's marriage entry to Isabella to confirn his parents names.

[dogwhistler]

Hi Annette,That's great news.it does indeed appear to be the same family,plus you seem to have found yet another generation.I like think that I'm quite intelligent,but I really don't know how you managed to find out so much information.More power to you.This new data gives me a lot more to go on now.RE;
John and Isabella - I have indeed checked heir marriage certificate,and the parents are named quite clearly there.I must say,that the marriage certs by then were pretty comprehensive.Thanks for all your hard work,and please be aware that your effort is most appreciated.Thanks also to all the team.Best Regards,Keith.
PS; Checked out Thomas Black and Helen Black.If they had the same son John,he would have been alive in the 1911 Ireland census,therefore I can rule them out.