Anderson family / Johnston family in Glasgow mid 19th C?

[Andersonic]

I've been browsing this excellent site for a while, and have very recently registered with it. I do hope someone here can help.
We have a great great grandfather's birth recorded in Wales in 1867 of a James Henry Anderson, and his parents are given on the certificate as James Anderson ( miner) and Mary Johnston.

We have been unable to find out any more about these parents, as the family does not seem to appear on any census, anywhere in England, Scotland or Wales - until young James Henry pops up, immediately prior to his marriage in England, in 1888! From that point on he is a model citizen, but we've never found his parents at all - until.....

I was given recently a possible marriage between a James Anderson and a Mary Johnston in Glasgow in 1866. We have no ages, or locations as yet - but I wonder if anyone could give likely families in Glasgow with James Anderson at a marriageable age, or Mary Johnstone around 1861? He may have been a miner already, so quite possibly not at all a well-off family? I'd appreciate some help. The whole family of James Henry Anderson seems shrouded in mystery - it took me two years to get as far as his birth certification!
( I'm afraid I have little knowledge of the Geography of Glasgow itself, - I've been there only once, but was completely knocked out by the wonderful museums/Art Gallery there and the Burrell collection - at the time I didn't know we had any possible links further north than modern Cumbria.)

[SarahND]

Hello Andersonic and ,
I'm impressed you found the birth record at all, because I certainly can't find it! At least not in the county and place and year that he claims in later censuses. Is he the one found with his wife Winifred Patten and children William, Charles Edward, Lucy and Susan Mary in Lancashire 1901 and 1911? In that case he said he was born in Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales and I'm just not seeing the birth...

On the birth certificate, which I assume you have, is there any indication that he might be illegitimate? Only because I see a James Anderson, miner, unmarried in Flint in 1871, but he may well be unrelated. As you know, there are too many James Andersons around!

Because James Henry's wife Winifred was born in Ireland, it is possible that the family may have been in Ireland during those missing censuses.

If you download the Glasgow marriage from scotlandspeople.gov.uk you can at least see the occupation of James and see if it tallies, although that still won't prove that he is the father of James Henry.

All the best,
Sarah

[nelmit]

Doesn't help at all but Winifred is on her own at Astley, Lancashire in 1891 awaiting the birth of William.

Regards,
Annette

[Andersonic]

Wow, that was quick! I've been searching for this lot so long, I thought there was no-one anywhere who knew of them!
Firstly: Sarah, yes, I have a copy of the birth certificate, I'd found a birth record that fitted with James Henry's stated birthplace throughout most records, and it gives parents as Mary Johnston and James Anderson (miner).
As you'll know if you know of the family, they seem to have gone in for mining, James Henry and his son William, and the family William married in to, all were in mining - and that does make it harder, as they move round, and often were not highly literate or accurate in census returns, etc. William seems to have made some use of the surname "Jonson" (sic) too.
James Henry A. is the one who married Winifred Paton/Paton. She appears (as "Wineford Pateen") lodging with a McHugh family in 1881 in Hindley/Atherton area in the 1881 census with her mother Mary, widowed, and brother Michael. all born in Ireland.
I'd really love to know if you are researching them, if you know anything more of James Henry Anderson's parentage or siblings, because it's taken me years to get that far!!
Annette, thank you for the reminder that Winifred was alone in the 1891 census. We have always wondered though where William the eldest son of James Henry and Winifred was at that point, for William was born 8th May 1890. At the time of the 1891 census she was busy growing the second son, Charles Edward Anderson, he died in WW1. We would have expected young William to be with his mother - and we have tried to see if he was with any other relatives we could find ( not many options we know of!) in the area overnight, say, on census date.
Thank you both for your interest. I'd happened on this site some time back, and a short while ago, being told twice of a James Anderson / Mary Johnston marriage in Glasgow, I thought of this site, registered and posted. As I don't have access to "Scotland's People" - this is my first foray north of the border,I'd hoped that someone may already have information, and, if this James Anderson also proved to be a miner, it'd be worth joining S.P., and shelling out for the certificate of the marriage, as a way of establishing the ages ( and following that up via censuses, the birthplaces ) of both parents, to try and check it out.
Again, my thanks.

[Andersonic]

Oh, and yes, I too had the 1871 census of the unmarried James Anderson in Flintshire - as I don't have any idea of what age James Henry's father would be, I just noted it for reference. As I mentioned, I was not surprised either way if he was down as unmarried - I've found that elsewhere when married men, usually, were working and lodging away from home, they've been entered in by whoever filled in the census form as unmarried.
- Sorry, just remembered that after I posted.

[SarahND]

Hello again,
I don't think any of us were actually researching this family until you posted! We just start racing around looking when someone asks a question, so it is highly unlikely that someone on the forum already has the marriage record.

Exactly where did the birth take place in Wales? As I said, I couldn't see an obvious one in the index for that year.

All the best,
Sarah

[SarahND]

Okay, the holiday spirit has arrived and I'm in a generous mood and also feeling curious, so I just spent 6 credits on the marriage.

James Anderson was an engine keeper living at 48 Frederick Street, Glasgow, the son of James Anderson, tailor and Janet Anderson, maiden surname McDonald.
Mary Johnstone was a widow living at 45Garland (?) St, Glasgow and working as a sewer. She signed with her mark so couldn't write. Her parents were possibly Malcolm Johnstone who might have been a flax dresser (sorry, the certificate is very difficult to read) and Mary Johnstone, maiden surname Buxton. They were married according to the forms of the Baptist Church.

So... is this your man and he decided to become a miner in Wales, or are we on the wrong track?

All the best,
Sarah

[nelmit]

It doesn't look likely that they are the parents of James born 1867 Wales.

Here they are in 1871 at 48 N Frederick St

James Anderson 43 Labourer in Iron Works born Inverness
Mary Anderson 48 born Ireland
James Glanston 21 stepson

Regards,
Annette

[Andersonic]

No, it doesn't look all that likely that this James & Mary could be "our" James and Mary. Thanks to SarahND for the e-mail message - I'd replied before logging on here.
It'd not be impossible for him to be in an ironworks - I connect "ironmoulder" as another job linked with the Andersons, so that doesn't eliminate him, but I can't see them popping down to Wales, then almost straight back after 1867. The stepson James also argues no, it'd be a very odd family who had half-siblings with the same name. The ages of James and Mary might have accounted for him seeming to have no siblings I've been able to trace through other Anderson births in the Hawarden area about 10 years either side of James Henry's birth dates.
( James Henry Anderson was born 23rd March 1867 in Hawarden Flintshire, and registered in Hawarden. There's no more specific address shown. After the birth registration, which is definitely the right chap, he's not evident on census or other searches ( age + Flintshire birth) anywhere in 1871 or 1871 or 1881 as far as we can see, with or without parents. Then he pops up in Wigan area, gets baptised into R.C. Church, ( which means he wasn't R.C. born, so might well be of baptist stock) marries Winifred, has William, then Charles, Lucy and finally Susan Mary, dying respectably in Bury, Lancs area as late as 1922)
It's wonderful that you've all been so helpful. I love the image of you all "racing around". But I know how good it's felt when I've been able to help someone else with their research, so can understand why you are so kind.
Ah well, it may be one more possible James & Mary combo eliminated, so not all bad, then.
thanks again.

[Andersonic]

By the way ( better late than never) Thank you very much SarahND for your unexpected generous gesture of expending credits on my behalf. I hope that I shall be able to do something as kind for someone before too long. I only realised when I came on this site again that I had not at the time of my last response, actually thanked you, although it was in the forefront of my mind when I started typing. Thank you again, and my apologies.