hi folks ,
this is my first post hopefully I'm posting in the correct place.
I'm trying to find the birth record of Helen Scott born c1834 Midlothian Edinburgh.
in short i have her marriage, death, and in 1861,1871,1881,census
I have her married age 23yrs on 10 Feb 1857 to Thomas McGee [rope spinner/maker]Edinburgh on this her parents are named as
WILLIAM Scott [occupation- carter]& Janet Agger
I couldnt find any such Janet so I assumed its meant to be Edger i have tried various connotations of Agger i.e. ,Aggar, Ogger, Oggen, Hagger and found no one but i have found a few Edgers.[that was only part of my problem]
I then found a death record 1885 age 51 yrs stating her parents were JAMES Scott [carter]& Janet EDGER
there seems to be some dubiety about her fathers name . I have found a william scott and janet scott in ashkirk, Haddingtonshire with a daughter Helen but in all the census records I have for Helen she states born Midlothian. I have also found James Scott & Janet Edgers marriage 1812 Midlothian but cant find a child .
I have Helen McGee ms Scott on the following census 1861-Naismith's Land, Leith,1871-12 Burns St,Leith, 1881-20 Burns St.Leith
I did post on another site but I'm afraid they couldn't get any further forward than I did, just wondering if anyone here might have a bit better luck finding conformation of Helen Scott's birth record from 1834.
Many thanks for taking the time to read my post
Can anyone find HELEN SCOTT's birth record ?
Moderator: Global Moderators
Re: Can anyone find HELEN SCOTT's birth record ?
Hi MacSmirkey,
![[TS_welcome]](./images/smilies/TS_welcome.png "TS welcome")
I had a look at the 1857 marriage certificate and the 1885 death certificate. In both cases, I read the mother's first name as Jane, rather than Janet. On the death certificate, I read Jane's surname as EDGAR.
I see the birth of a Helen SCOTT in 1837 to William SCOTT and Jane CURRIE in Ashkirk, Selkirkshire (not Haddingtonshire); but either way, not Midlothian. As the censuses are consistent with Edinburgh, I would put this one on the back burner.
Back to the death certificate - the widower, Thomas, names his deceased father-in-law as James. I would put more likelihood in Helen giving the correct name for her father on the marriage record, than the son-in-law's information on the death certificate.
All the best,
AndrewP
I had a look at the 1857 marriage certificate and the 1885 death certificate. In both cases, I read the mother's first name as Jane, rather than Janet. On the death certificate, I read Jane's surname as EDGAR.
I see the birth of a Helen SCOTT in 1837 to William SCOTT and Jane CURRIE in Ashkirk, Selkirkshire (not Haddingtonshire); but either way, not Midlothian. As the censuses are consistent with Edinburgh, I would put this one on the back burner.
Back to the death certificate - the widower, Thomas, names his deceased father-in-law as James. I would put more likelihood in Helen giving the correct name for her father on the marriage record, than the son-in-law's information on the death certificate.
All the best,
AndrewP
Re: Can anyone find HELEN SCOTT's birth record ?
Hi MacSmirkey
I've had a look at a few records and tried to piece together a past for your Helen prior to her marriage in 1857. It seems that nothing quite matches 100% no matter how you look at it but here are my thoughts.
You've done all the normal searching by parent names and found two couples but nothing that helps you choose one over the other. Let me add a pointer that you did not mention. On the 1857 marriage there is a witness named John Scott. It is my experience that this person is very likely to be a relation. My first choice would be to look for a brother to Helen named John. The 1841 Census has an interesting family enumerated at 25 Tobago St in Edinburgh headed by Jane Scott age 45 and also has a 7 year old Helen in it. 1841 does not of course state relationships but it can infer them. I have cropped a portion of the census page image to show this family and their neighbor.
Note that at 26 Tobago Street there is a John Scott, Andrew Scott and David Scott. I think this could be your Helen surrounded by people named Scott with all the right names!
Another search tip is to look for anyone with the Scott surname who has died since 1855 and has a mother maiden name of Edgar. There is one that bears looking at found in Glasgow indexed as:
1863 SCOTT MARGARET EDGAR HORN F 42 CLYDE GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 0596
Margaret's father is named James Scott and is a Contractor and is deceased at the time of her death. Her mother is Jane Edgar and is also deceased. Margaret's husband is James Horn and is the informant. A search for a marriage for Margaret Scott and James Horn takes you right back to Edinburgh in 1839. This OPR has a nugget of info in it that states Margaret is the Daughter of the late James Scott, Baker at No. 24 Tobago Street, St. Cuthberts. That address points nicely to the group just isolated on the 1841 census at Tobago Street.
I'm still struggling with the multiple occupations for James Scott and wondering if they are one and the same person. The 1812 marriage of James Scott and Jane Edgar has him as a Mason, The marriage and death records of Margaret Scott have her father as James Scott, Baker and James Scott, Contractor. The 1857 Marriage of Helen Scott has her father as William Scott, Carter and her death record as James Scott, Carter. We can see that there is discrepancy in the records of Margaret Scott just like there are in the records of Helen Scott. We can see that their probable father James Scott was dead before 1839. With Helen born about 1834 she would not have much first hand knowledge of him.
So what is next? I think it is necessary that you exhaust a search for any of the Scott people on the 1841 census. I looked for a death of mother Jane Scott and found a possible one in May of 1857. This Jane was age 59 and at the House of Refuge. There were no parents or family named on it so no way to be sure her maiden name was Edgar. So far I have not spent much time looking for John Scott who we know was alive in 1857 to see if he might be the same neighbor John in 1841.
You will probably never have an actual birth or baptism record for Helen but it may still be possible to link her to some family.
I hope this is helpful info. Please do let us know of your progress!
Best wishes
Jean
PS I see that my attempt to insert the Census link causes it to be viewed as a thumbnail on my screen. Hopefully someone can come to the rescue on this!
Sorted - AndrewP
I've had a look at a few records and tried to piece together a past for your Helen prior to her marriage in 1857. It seems that nothing quite matches 100% no matter how you look at it but here are my thoughts.
You've done all the normal searching by parent names and found two couples but nothing that helps you choose one over the other. Let me add a pointer that you did not mention. On the 1857 marriage there is a witness named John Scott. It is my experience that this person is very likely to be a relation. My first choice would be to look for a brother to Helen named John. The 1841 Census has an interesting family enumerated at 25 Tobago St in Edinburgh headed by Jane Scott age 45 and also has a 7 year old Helen in it. 1841 does not of course state relationships but it can infer them. I have cropped a portion of the census page image to show this family and their neighbor.
Note that at 26 Tobago Street there is a John Scott, Andrew Scott and David Scott. I think this could be your Helen surrounded by people named Scott with all the right names!
Another search tip is to look for anyone with the Scott surname who has died since 1855 and has a mother maiden name of Edgar. There is one that bears looking at found in Glasgow indexed as:
1863 SCOTT MARGARET EDGAR HORN F 42 CLYDE GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 0596
Margaret's father is named James Scott and is a Contractor and is deceased at the time of her death. Her mother is Jane Edgar and is also deceased. Margaret's husband is James Horn and is the informant. A search for a marriage for Margaret Scott and James Horn takes you right back to Edinburgh in 1839. This OPR has a nugget of info in it that states Margaret is the Daughter of the late James Scott, Baker at No. 24 Tobago Street, St. Cuthberts. That address points nicely to the group just isolated on the 1841 census at Tobago Street.
I'm still struggling with the multiple occupations for James Scott and wondering if they are one and the same person. The 1812 marriage of James Scott and Jane Edgar has him as a Mason, The marriage and death records of Margaret Scott have her father as James Scott, Baker and James Scott, Contractor. The 1857 Marriage of Helen Scott has her father as William Scott, Carter and her death record as James Scott, Carter. We can see that there is discrepancy in the records of Margaret Scott just like there are in the records of Helen Scott. We can see that their probable father James Scott was dead before 1839. With Helen born about 1834 she would not have much first hand knowledge of him.
So what is next? I think it is necessary that you exhaust a search for any of the Scott people on the 1841 census. I looked for a death of mother Jane Scott and found a possible one in May of 1857. This Jane was age 59 and at the House of Refuge. There were no parents or family named on it so no way to be sure her maiden name was Edgar. So far I have not spent much time looking for John Scott who we know was alive in 1857 to see if he might be the same neighbor John in 1841.
You will probably never have an actual birth or baptism record for Helen but it may still be possible to link her to some family.
I hope this is helpful info. Please do let us know of your progress!
Best wishes
Jean
PS I see that my attempt to insert the Census link causes it to be viewed as a thumbnail on my screen. Hopefully someone can come to the rescue on this!
Sorted - AndrewP