Mysterious death

Birth, Marriage, Death

Moderator: Global Moderators

Post Reply
crayspond
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 am
Location: Reading UK

Mysterious death

Post by crayspond » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:59 pm

Hi everyone and a Happy New Year to all,

I have been helping my husband out with his family tree as he's missing out on DNA possible matches and I've came across a death certificate for his 3 x gt grandfather Michael Rodgers age 50 . A few questions here:
His profession is listed as Police Scavenger - does anyone know what this was?
His mother's maiden name was Kelwee - is this an Irish name?
He died 8th February 1877 about 4pm Southern Police Office (usual residence 14 Greenside Lane Glasgow) The certificate is 644/12/115 district of Gorbals. cause of death asphyxia from hanging.
I wonder if anyone has access to the newspaper site and could have a look around this time. I don't know if he died in the cells at the station but it does look like it. It doesn't mention suicide.
Thanks in advance for your help,

Ailsa

nelmit
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Mysterious death

Post by nelmit » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:08 pm

Hi Ailsa,

From the Scotsman on 9th February 1877 -

'Suicide in a a Glasgow Prison -
While the turnkeys were doing their rounds in the South Prison at Glasgow yesterday afternoon, they discovered Michael Rodgers (50) who had resided at Greenside Lane, suspended by a cravat from the fireguard of the cell in which he was confined. Rodgers had been apprehended on a charge of stabbing his wife.'

:( very sad.

Regards,
Annette

crayspond
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 am
Location: Reading UK

Re: Mysterious death

Post by crayspond » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:43 pm

Hi Annette,
Sorry I just got your message - I was watching mayhem in Washington. The world is going mad!

Thank you very much for looking this up for me. I just recently discovered that Michael Rodgers had married for a 2nd time after his 1st wife Catherine Gilligan (my husband's 3 x gt grandmother) died in 1864. He had a thruline on ancestry with a name I couldn't connect and the person who shares the DNA is not replying. I was curious if he had married again and indeed he had in 1868 to Margaret King. She is actually the informant on the death certificate - so the stabbing could not have been fatal. Still a sad situation. I now have to see if they had any children and when she died. I am now getting drawn into his family tree!
Thank you again for finding this out.
Regards
Ailsa

AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6071
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Mysterious death

Post by AndrewP » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:21 am

Hi Ailsa,

The online IGI names three children to this couple:
. . William Rodgers . . . 23-Sep-1867 . . . . Glasgow
. . Mary Rodgers . . . . . 13-Sep-1869 . . . . Glasgow
. . Robert Rodgers . . . . 13-Nov-1871 . . . . Glasgow

You should find birth certificates on ScotlandsPeople for each of these children.

I see what looks like them in the 1881 census as step-children to Matthew Jamieson (wife Margaret Jamieson). On that basis, it looks like Margaret re-married. On ScotlandsPeople there is a marriage in 1877 between Matthew Jamieson and Margaret King / Rodger in Gorbals registration district.

There is what looks like her death, aged 74, in 1913 in Hutchesontown of Margaret King / Rodger / Jamieson.

That should keep you busy for a while,

AndrewP

Currie
Posts: 3859
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Mysterious death

Post by Currie » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:19 pm

Happy New Year Ailsa.

It appears that Police Scavengers were employed by the police to keep the streets clean, with maybe some other street related duties thrown in.

There are no Scottish BMD records and only one English for Kelwee. No idea about the Irish. I suspect the spelling could be a guess.

There’s a bit more info in the Glasgow Herald, February 9, 1877. He assaulted his wife with a pair of scissors.
See half way down fourth column this page under “Court Circular”.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E ... %2C2487407

Alan

crayspond
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 am
Location: Reading UK

Re: Mysterious death

Post by crayspond » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:02 pm

Hi Everyone,
This is getting very interesting
Andrew P, thanks for the info - I had my suspicions that there would be children as she was only 29 and he was 42 when they married in 1868. At your suggestion I found Margaret Jamieson on the 1881 census in Greenside Lane.
My husband's 2 x gt grandfather Patrick (Michael's son from his 1st marriage) was 14 when his mother died in 1864. When he married in 1874 the address was 14 Greenside Lane same as the 1881 census for Margaret and her new husband.
Alan, I must say I've never came across a Police Scavenger before I did google it but nothing came up. Previously he was a road surface man.
Thanks for the other newspaper report - Assault with scissors is quite bad - she was lucky to get away with her life - you would think it would be hard for his cellmate to fall asleep while he was hanging himself.
Just after Annette sent her post - My husband had an email from the DNA match who wasn't replying and she confirmed that they share the same 2 x gt grandfather Patrick and Ann Grandison. I sure have a lot to tell about her 3 x gt grandfather!

Many thanks again,
Ailsa

AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6071
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Mysterious death

Post by AndrewP » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:37 pm

Hi Ailsa,

As regards surname 'Kelwee', to me it looks like a variation (misunderstanding?) of surname 'McElwee' or 'McIlwee', a name of Irish origin.

All the best,

AndrewP

carolineasb
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:15 pm

Re: Mysterious death

Post by carolineasb » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:47 pm

Was there an RCE attached to the death entry? I would thought that it would have given more information about the death circumstances

crayspond
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 am
Location: Reading UK

Re: Mysterious death

Post by crayspond » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:03 am

Hi Carolineasb
I was thinking the same thing but nothing attached to the certificate. It also sounds a bit suspect that his cell mate could turn over and sleep while Michael Rodgers took his own life. Tough times.

Falkyrn
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Mysterious death

Post by Falkyrn » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:52 pm

carolineasb wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:47 pm
Was there an RCE attached to the death entry? I would thought that it would have given more information about the death circumstances
There is only an entry to the Register of Corrected Entries if there is any information actually changed. (for example a sudden death occurs and the family raise the initial Registration with the Registrar but the police report or post mortem exam to the PF provides further or differing info)

In this case I suspect that the registration of the death would have been by the PF's office as it was a death while in custody and that they would have had the relevant information so no RCE. Unfortunately the vast majority of Sudden death Reports to the PF were, like many reports to the PF's office routinely destroyed after a statutory set period.
~RJ Paton~

Post Reply