Age on marriage reg produces no birth or death reg.....

Post by **paddyscar** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:08 am

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-297

I've posted the registration of marriage (1896) of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett, in which John is listed as being 23. There is a correction beside the age and a notation in the right hand margin.

1901 census lists his age as 28. IGI gives birth/christening date of 22 Jan 1871 with correct parental names. ScotlandsPeople lists 7 births in Edinburgh 1871-73, how do I determine which of those seven is the most likely? Please and thanks,

Frances

Post by **AndrewP** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:34 am

Hi Frances,

This is a puzzling one. The age has first been written 23, scored out and 23 written again. Then beside that, 16 has been written. Then in the right margin, sixteen is written as a word and initialled by the Registrar.

Has the Registrar been told "no, he's 16"? If so, why is the second 23 not scored out?

The IGI stops at 1875 for Scottish bmds extracted from the Civil Registers. So if he was 16, then he would have been born around 1879, and hence not on the IGI.

The only way to find out if any which of the certificates on ScotlandsPeople is the right one, is to pay for and view them, starting at 1871, as that is the information from the IGI. If age 16 is to be considered, then you have to go back to ScotlandsPeople and look around 1879. Could John Kelly of 1871 have died young, and a child born to this couple around 1879 have been given the name John?

Some ideas for you to ponder.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:32 am

The "sixteen" refers to the fact that it's the 16th correction/alteration made in the register.

IGI extract info is normally reliable, so look only in 1871 on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk in Edinburgh City and take the earlier of the two records, - the lower number to match the January date from IGI.

So simple

David

PS Such a single year search on SP gives two results for a John Kelly, but IGI only gives one.......... the reason being that the other John Kelly is the illegitimate son of John Doherty and Elizabeth Kelly. GROS/SP index the record under both surnames in such a situation, but in this case at least, IGI has only indexed it under the surname shown in the "name of the child" column.
dww

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:06 am

Christina was born about 1878 so was 18-ish at the time of marriage. Here she is in 1881:

Dwelling: 450 South York St
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203671 GRO Ref Volume 644-11 EnumDist 66 Page 4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas LIPSETT M 34 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Gen Labourer
Fanny LIPSETT M 30 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Gen Lab Wife
Mary LIPSETT 13 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Scholar
Thomas LIPSETT 10 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Anthony LIPSETT 8 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Christine LIPSETT 3 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Winifred LIPSETT 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Dau

This appears to be John in 1881:

Dwelling: 376 Cumberland St
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203671 GRO Ref Volume 644-11 EnumDist 58 Page 22
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John KELLY M 36 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Hawker
Catherine KELLY M 33 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Mary KELLY 12 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
John KELLY 10 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Catherine KELLY 6 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Elizabeth KELLY 2 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur

Which ties in perfectly with the place of birth in the 1901 census and the witness, Catherine Kelly from the marriage cert.

Mary the sister fits too:

1. HELEN KELLY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 23 AUG 1867 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
2. MARY KELLY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 05 APR 1869 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
3. JOHN KELLY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 22 JAN 1871 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
4. THOMAS KELLY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 06 JUL 1873 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Really looks like the right family.

Christina's mother had died by 1891 but her Granny, Mary Malley, was staying with the family.

Thomas and Fanny were married in 1867 that should name both sets of parents. Three children were born before 1874:

1. THOMAS LIPSETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 14 DEC 1870 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. ANTHONY LIPSETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 MAR 1873 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
3. MARY LIPSETT - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 AUG 1868 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

This may be a brother of Thomas:

Dwelling: No 462 Paisley Road
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203681 GRO Ref Volume 644-14 EnumDist 3 Page 7
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Agnes GOWANLOCK W 52 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Boarding House Keeper
Walter GOWANLOCK U 24 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Ship Carpenter
Lilias GOWANLOCK U 16 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Sale Woman
Edward LIPSETT U 38 M Ireland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Commercial Traveller Mineral Waters
John CHAPMAN U 32 M Airdrie, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Coachman
John MC GOUNELL U 21 M Ireland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Barman
Robt.G. POTTS U 16 M Ireland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Apprentice Ship Carpenter

Post by **paddyscar** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:43 pm

Thank you for your most welcome and informative replies. Happy St. Andrew's Day!

Frances