How many John Duncan's can a girl deal with?.....

Birth, Marriage, Death

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Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

How many John Duncan's can a girl deal with?.....

Post by Carol Duncan » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:05 am

Hello, I am new to Talking Scot and I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me untangle my sticky Duncan web!

I'm in Australia. My Gt Gt Grandfather, John Erskine Duncan b. 1848, came to Australia in 1883. His wife was Agnes McConnell. They had three children born in Scotland, John McConnell Duncan b. abt. 1877, Mary b. abt 1880 and James Edward Duncan b. 1883. Prior to emigration, they lived in Paisley/Anderston.

To cut a very long story short, my nephew is the 7th first born son in a row to be named John Duncan (at least, that's 7 that I now of) ... but I need some help with John McConnell Duncan. I have not been able to find anything for him at Scotlands People. I have a 'birthday' book which belonged to my grandfather which says John McConnell Duncan was born 21 April 1877 at 6 Grace Street, Anderston. I know the family lived there for a while, but I have not been able to confirm his birth.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to how I might get some more information about him? I guess he might not have been born in Anderston at all but it's likely as his father, John Erskine Duncan was born in Paisley. I don't know where John Duncan #1 b. abt 1825 was born.

Any assistance greatly appreciated. New family members warmly welcomed!

A link to a couple of photos of my John Duncans and a photo of an engraved pendant that was given to my Gt Gt Grandfather when he left Glasgow ... below.

Thanks,

Carol Duncan
Australia

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dukpix/

CatrionaL
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Post by CatrionaL » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:19 am

Hullo Carol

A warm welcome to Talking Scot!

A few thoughts for your research. Have you looked for the family in the 1881 Census on SP? Have you used wild cards to search for his birth, especially for the Mcconnell part of his name?

Best wishes for your further research.

Catriona

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:24 am

Hi Carol
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot. This looks like your family in the 1881 census:
  • Dwelling: 6 Grace St
    Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0203666 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 34 Page 19
    John DUNCAN M 32 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: Ship Plumber
    Agnes DUNCAN M 30 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
    Rel: Wife
    John DUNCAN 5 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Occ: Scholar
    Mary DUNCAN 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.

CatrionaL
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Post by CatrionaL » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:37 am

Hullo again, Carol

Just been playing around with the SP search.

I tried a birth search
DUNC*N
John M*C*ON*EL*
Lanark
Anderston
1870-1880

It turned up one hit. Worth a look perhaps.

Catriona

WilmaM
Posts: 1870
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Post by WilmaM » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:44 am

Do you have their marriage?

JOHN DUNCAN Male
Marriages:
AGNES MCCONNELL 31 DEC 1874 Kelvin, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record

and perhaps John Erskine Duncan's Parent's marriage?

JOHN DUNCAN Male
Spouse: AGNES ERSKINE Marriage: 30 DEC 1845 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Husband Age at Marriage: 21
Wife Age at Marriage: 22
Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record

Remember though that they may or may not have put the middle name on the birth registration.
Wilma

joette
Global Moderator
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: Clydebank

Post by joette » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:43 am

Welcome to TS & Good Luck with your search.
Are the photos of your son/nephew? How is the wee boy? Looks like a traumatic start & hope he is well.
Researching:SCOTT,Taylor,Young,VEITCH LINLEY,MIDLOTHIAN
WADDELL,ROSS,TORRANCE,GOVAN/DALMUIR/Clackmanannshire
CARR/LEITCH-Scotland,Ireland(County Donegal)
LINLEY/VEITCH-SASK.Canada
ALSO BROWN,MCKIMMIE,MCDOWALL,FRASER.
Greer/Grier,Jenkins/Jankins

Jack
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: Paisley

The Duncan family

Post by Jack » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:27 pm

Hi Carol,
These are the family of John DUNCAN & Agnes ERSKINE that Wilma found the marriage of.
If "yours" then according to the 1861 census father John was born Ireland.
(do twins "run" in your family?)
--
MATHEW b ~1846 Paisley
JOHN b ~1848 Paisley
JAMES ERSKINE DUNCAN - Birth: 21 NOV 1849 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
AGNES DUNCAN - Birth: 10 APR 1852 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
GEORGE RESK DUNCAN - Birth: 04 AUG 1854 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
ELIZABETH DUNCAN - Birth: 26 AUG 1856 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
MARY DUNCAN - Birth: 26 AUG 1856 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
DAVID DUNCAN - Birth: 02 AUG 1857 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
EDWARD COOK DUNCAN - Birth: 02 AUG 1857 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
DANIEL DUNCAN - Birth: 11 DEC 1858 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
ALEXANDER KNOX DUNCAN - Birth: 03 NOV 1862 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
WILLIAM KNOX DUNCAN - Birth: 12 OCT 1864 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
--
1851 cens 644-1 (562) Ed 12 p 6 (City - St Johns)
39 Sydney Street.
John DUNCAN, head, marr, 30, cooper, b Paisley, RFW [sic]
Agnes E. DUNCAN, wife, marr, 25, ------b Paisley, RFW
Matthew DUNCAN, son, 4, ----------b Paisley, RFW
John DUNCAN, son, 2, -----------b Paisley, RFW
James E. DUNCAN, son, 1, ---b Glasgow, LKS
--
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 94 p 2 (Barony - Anderston)
63 Bothwell Street.
John DUNCAN, head, marr, 41, shop-keeper to a wine & spirit merchant, b Ireland [sic]
Agnes ERSKINE, wife, marr, 36, --------------b Paisley, RFW
Matthew DUNCAN, son, 13, shop boy, spirit merchants, b Paisley, RFW
John DUNCAN, son, 11, scholar, b Paisley, RFW
James DUNCAN, son, 10, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Agnes DUNCAN, daur, 8, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Edward Cork DUNCAN, son, 3, ---b Glasgow, LKS
Daniel DUNCAN, son, 2, ----------b Glasgow, LKS
====
Can't see John DUNCAN in Paisley 1841, but this looks like Agnes ERSKINE's family.
I hope Mathew & Elisabeth survive to 1855 to see who their parents are on their DCs. [later, it seems they have!]
--
MATHEW ERSKINE
ELISABETH KNOX
Marriage: 11 JUN 1824 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland

AGNES ERSKINE - Birth: 19 MAY 1824 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
ANN ERSKINE - Birth: 11 NOV 1825 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
ELISABETH ERSKINE - Birth: 29 MAR 1832 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
JANET ERSKINE - Birth: 03 FEB 1834 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
MATTHEW ERSKINE - Birth: 05 OCT 1836 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
JOHN ERSKINE - Christening: 01 SEP 1839 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
MATTHEW ERSKINE - Christening: 21 NOV 1841 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
JAMES ERSKINE - Christening: 17 OCT 1846 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
--
1841 cens 573 Ed 13 p 10 (High)
33 Lady Lane, Paisley.
Mathew ERSKINE, 37, Foreman, b RFW
Elizabeth ERSKINE, 36------b RFW
Agness ERSKINE, 16-------b RFW
Ann ERSKINE, 15----------b RFW
Elizabeth ERSKINE, 9---b RFW
Janet ERSKINE, 7------b RFW
--
1851 cens 573-1 (463) Ed 22 p 21 (High)
33 Lady Lane.
Matthew ERSKINE, head, marr, 46, warehouseman, b Paisley, RFW
Elizabeth ERSKINE, wife, marr, ---------------------------b Paisley, RFW
Elizabeth ERSKINE, daur, u/m 19, machine sewer, b Paisley, RFW
Janet ERSKINE, daur, u/m 17, machine sewer, b Paisley, RFW
Matthew ERSKINE, son, 9, scholar, b Paisley, RFW
James ERSKINE, son, 4, at home, b Paisley, RFW
--
1881 Census Place: Paisley High Church, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: 33 Lady Lane
Source: FHL Film 0203581 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 15 Page 16
Matthew ERSKINE M 77 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: No Employment
Elizabeth ERSKINE M 76 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife
Janet BARR W 46 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Shawl Fringer
Jessie BARR U 16 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Grand Daur Occ: Thread Mill Worker
Jane BARR 15 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Grand Daur Occ: Thread Mill Worker
--
Jack
ps, what details do you have on Agnes McCONNELL's parents? Any siblings?
[edited to include census details]
Last edited by Jack on Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

All my Duncans ... THANK YOU!

Post by Carol Duncan » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:47 am

I know it's rude to shout, but I am just about reduced to tears to see how many of you responded to my posting and have tried to help ... with enormous success, too! As I'm sure all know, you spend literally years on your research, years posting to different sites and forums ... and rarely get a response let alone lots of information. So thank you all very, very much. This is obviously a very supportive and generous group!

I just wish my first John Duncan wasn't Irish! (Just because the Irish records are so few ... I have an Irish convict ancestor who doesn't rate a mention in the Transportation indexes! His son became Mayor of Sydney!)

Catriona: I will spend my last three credits on that search, thank you! I can't believe you have to pay over there to research indexes. Scandalous!

Lesley ... that is indeed my family, just before the third child was born. Thank you.

Wilma, yes I do have the marriage extract. That was the last thing I've been able to find ... and no wonder I couldn't find a birth or baptism for him if he's in fact Irish! Thanks!

Joette ... the photos are of my son, James. He was born with Transposition of the Great Arteries, a terrible heart defect where the aorta and pulmonary arteries are switched. He underwent open heart surgery at 8 days old to have them 'switched' back to their anatomically correct position ... to do that they also have to move and reimplant the tiny coronary arteries as well. All utterly terrifying but he is turning three on 18 Feb and doing unbelievably well! He is the child further down the page with the Santa hat and Christmas present!

Jack ... I can't believe he's Irish! My father is so disappointed! (He is number 5 John Duncan in a row ... unless there's more!) I think he envisaged being part of a line of 4,000 years of John Duncans! Funnily enough, we don't actually have many twins ... there's only one that I can think of ... one of my cousins is a twin (the other died either at birth or very young). Would those dates definitely be births or could they be baptisms? I know in Australia one branch of the family that lived outside the city used to save up all their kiddies for a big joint baptism whenever the priest came to town!

Thank you for all the information on the Erskine family, too. I knew Matthew Erskine and Elizabeth Knox's names. I suspect Matthew's parents might be a John Erskine and Anne Fleming ... but I haven't gone any further down that path yet.

As for Agnes McConnell ... I have nothing on her yet other than her parents' names, John McConnell and Mary Carson. I don't have a birth date for her but it would have been abt. 1851. She was a remarkable woman who died at 94 years of age of carbon monoxide poisoning when the coal fire in her bedroom went out! I hope I do as well as she did! That said, I am a little confused about her as well as her first son's marriage certificate (John McConnell Duncan) names her as Agnes McConnell. The first son born in Australia, James McVey Duncan, has a marriage certificate naming her as Agnes McVie! All five children are listed on her death certificate, so I suspect Agnes McConnell and Agnes McVie are the same woman ... but why? Was she married twice by age 22? Possible ... but interesting!

Anyway, thank you ALL ... I shall spend a happy day typing up all the information and giving my two boys iceblocks (it's about 36 degrees celsius here ... New Years Day was a record 45 degrees)!

Thank you,

Carol Duncan
Warners Bay
Australia

Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

Catriona ...

Post by Carol Duncan » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:08 am

Well I just purchased a few more credits (!) ... and that is indeed one of my Johns!

Thank you.

:)

Carol.

Carol Duncan
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Warners Bay, Australia

My Duncans are getting sad.

Post by Carol Duncan » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:40 am

Well I have searched and searched and spent lots of money on ScotlandsPeople and my little heart breaks.

My John Duncan b. abt 1825 whom it turned out is from Ireland and his wife Agnes Erskine both died of typhus within about 6 weeks of each other at the end of 1866 (he was also drunk ... as I guess you would be if your wife had just died and you had 12 kiddies).

They had 12 children aged 20 down to 2 years of age. I have no idea what happened to the children ... I did a few more census searches for 1871 but it isn't clear to me. It all sounds like a tragedy, probably a reasonably common one for the time though.

I have gone back a little further with Agnes Erskine's maternal line (Knox, McCull) ... so that's a good find.

Thank you all!

Regards,

Carol.

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