Missing parents on death cert.....

[Carolann]

Can anyone help. If there is no parents names on Death Certificate and the marriage (OPR) doesn't show the names any idea where I could find it. Have been unable to trace birth cert.
The name is Charles Frederick. Married 26/02/1836 in Greenock. Died 18/06/1879 in Greenock. His Death Cert says he was 55 but I think he was older.
thanks
Carolann

[AndrewP]

Hi Carolann,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

You have a difficult one with no parents' names on the death certificate and an OPR marriage. How are you supposed to find his parents? With great difficulty is the first answer.

(1) Find him on the censuses of 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871. Is there any chance he was staying with his parents or his parents may have been with him on one of these nights. It is a long shot, but worth looking at. Remember that in the 1841 census, the instruction was for the enumerator to round down the adult ages to the nearest 5 or 10. From the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, you should get a place of birth.

(2) Have you seen the marriage OPR, or have you only seen the index entry (such as on Scotlands People, or the IGI)? If you've not seen the OPR, then you should seek to do so. It is another long shot, but there are a small amount of OPR marriages where you will find parents' names, or the house names of the couple. If you have that house name, try and find it in the censuses and see if people of the right surname and age group are there. If so, the you could find his birth, with the parents name to back that up.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[Carolann]

Thanks for reply. Yes I have seen the OPR and no parents listed.
I know his wife Janet France was born 02/08/1816 in Denny and they were married in Greenock. They were again in Polmont in 1842 when their son Robert was born then were back in Greenock again.
It is good to know about the ages in 1841.
Thanks for your help.
Carolann



Searching for Frederick, France, Sherry, McIlroy, McGilp, Livingstone, Brisbane, Campbell (Dundee and Islay), Williamson, McMaster

[Andy]

These names are very familiar. I either helped you before on SP or someone else on that board was related.

Although Robert was born in 1842 in Polmont the other brother, Peter, was born in 1840 in Glasgow. So there is an equal chance of finding the couple in Glasgow or Polmont in 1841 (or elsewhere which ain't helpful). The other son, Charles, gives his birthplace as Greenock about 1853. There was another daughter, Catherine, she reported her young sister's birth in 1858. Catherine must have been born very soon after her parents marriage, she was married in 1856 to George Kirshay.

Charles and Janet were in Polmont until at least 1846 when an unnamed son was born.

I'll have to re-check but I don't think (or can't remember if) I found Charles or the family in Greenock in 1851 or 1861 but they had been back to Greenock in 1856 when Catherine married and 1858 when daughter Janet was born. They were living at 5 Duncan Street for many years.

There were only two Fredericks families in the Greenock area around the time that the father, Charles, would have been born: Robert and Jean (MacDonald) Frederick and John and Sarah (Lang) Frederick.

Both of these Fredericks seem to have been born in Port Glasgow to Peter and Barbara (Wilson) Fredericks.

I'll have another look on Saturday.

[Jack]

Hi Carolann & Andy,
--
Seems they were in Glasgow 1841.

Charles FREDRICK 25
Jane 20
Catherine 4
Peter 1
--
And in Greenock 1851.

Charles FREDRICK, 36
Jane, 34
Catherine, 14
Peter, 10
Robert, 8
Henry, 4
--
All going well i'll get full details tomorrow.

Jack

[Carolann]

Andy/Jack

Thanks Andy once again for your help and yes you did help me on way to tracing ancestors. I seemed to have got far on the other names but then get stuck. However Jack and Andy, I didn't have the information about Glasgow in 1941,I knew they were in Glasgow in 1840 and 1846 and Polmont in 1842 and then back in Greenock 1851. They must have been in Greenock in 1865 because Janet France (nee Taylor) died 6 or 9th Feb 1865, Charles Frederick mother-in-law. They were still in Greenock in 1871,then his wife Jane Frederick (nee France) died 27/07/1871 and Charles Died 1879 but no parents on certificate.
Jack and Andy thank you for your help and information.
Carolann

[Jack]

Here they are - please note spellings.
--
1841 cens 644-1 Ed 148 p 8 (Wellpark)
Drygate St.
Charles FREDRICK, 25, sugar baker, born - Foreign
Jane FREDRICK, 20, ------- b in County - No
Catherine FREDRICK, 4, ----- b - No
Peter FREDRICK, 1, -------- b - Yes
Jannet TAYLOR, 45, -------- b - No

1851 cens 564-3 (443) Ed 116 pp 8/9 (Greenock West)
44 Innerkip St.
Charles FREDRICK, head, marr, 36, sugar baker, b Berlin? Germany
Jane FREDRICK, wife, 34, -------- b Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Cathrine FREDRICK, daur, 14, scholar, b Greenock, Renfrewhire
Peter FREDRICK, son, 10, -------- b Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Robert FREDRICK, son, 8, ------- b Polmont, Stirlingshire
Henry FREDRICK, son, 4, -------- b Polmont
Janet TAYLOR, mother in law, widow, 59, ----- b Muiravonside, Stirlingshire
William TAYLOR, lodger, u/m 22, sugar baker, b Falkirk
--

Jack

[Andy]

All the time I was posting my first reply I was thinking "GERMANY" don't remember the details but I probably did look up the information before.

[Carolann]

Jack/Andy

Thank you very much for this information from the census. My mum always did say that her mother thought they did come from Germany but when and how she didn't know. You have just confirmed this. I doubt now if I will be able to trace this line any further back.
Andy you did say in one of the postings away back you thought maybe he was born in Belgium or Germany and hey you were right.
I am very grateful for all this information.
Can I ask where the 1841 and 1851 census can be viewed at the library I suppose!
Anyway thanks and I am very grateful.
Carolann