Missing marriage or no marriage at all?.....

maddymoss · Post by **maddymoss** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:30 am

On the birth certificates of four of James Stanfield and Belinda Matthew's children it states that James and Belinda were married in Airdrie on 31st December 1857. In spite of using every permutation of wildcard I can think of there appears to be no trace of any marriage anytime between this couple anywhere in Scotland. Am I missing something?

Cheers,
Jim

Post by **AndrewP** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:57 am

Some food for thought for you...

According to the online IGI, on 31st Dec 1857, there is a marriage recorded for JAMES HUGHES and MATILDA MATTHEWS in New Monkland.

Given that New Monkland included Airdrie, there are a lot of reasons there to say have a look at that marriage on ScotlandsPeople. Then see, do the parents' names resemble those on the death certificates of the couple? If this is the couple, are they shown on the certificate by these names or the ones you were looking for (Is it a clerical error of 1857/58 or an indexing error of GROS/SP?).

Remember there is a fair likelihood that the marriage would be registered in 1858 rather than 1857. I take it that these are the children you have found to this couple, all found by an IGI parent search using JAMES STANFIELD and BELINDA MATTHEWS.

IGI wrote:JAMES STANDFIELD - Birth: 01 DEC 1858 Clyde, Glasgow, Lanark
THOMAS STANFIELD - Birth: 30 JUN 1860 New Monkland, Lanark
ROBERT STANFIELD - Birth: 14 NOV 1862 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark
JOHN STANFIELD - Birth: 15 MAR 1868 New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton
AGNES STANFIELD - Birth: 24 MAR 1871 Hamilton, Lanark
JOHN STANFIELD - Birth: 13 APR 1873 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:02 am

Hmmmmmm....................

The 1908 death register entry of James STANFIELD, Widower of Belinda MATTHEWS, shows his parents as William STANFIELD, Handloom Weaver, and Agnes STANFIELD MS HUGHES. The informant was the Governor of the Combination Poorhouse.

The 1857 marriage of James HUGHES to Matilda MATTHEWS shows his parents as William HUGHES, Weaver, and Agness HUGHES MS HUGHES, and her parents as Thomas MATTHEWS, Blacksmith, and Mary MATTHEWS MS HANLON.

But James wasn't a widower, as Belinda STANSFIELD, Widow of James STANSFIELD, Coal-Miner, died later than 1908, parents shown as Robert MATTHEWS, Scene Painter, and Mary MATTHEWS MS HERRIOT, informant Henry McDOUGALL, Son-in-Law.

Sort that little lot out !!

Davie

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:13 am

DavidWW wrote:Hmmmmmm....................

The 1908 death register entry of James STANFIELD, Widower of Belinda MATTHEWS, shows his parents as William STANFIELD, Handloom Weaver, and Agnes STANFIELD MS HUGHES. The informant was the Governor of the Combination Poorhouse.

Davie

Hello,

I could check the poorhouse application when I'm at 'The Mitchell' to see what James had to say about himself.

It is quite a late entry though and I don't know if it will be listed yet.

Annette M

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:39 am

nelmit wrote:
DavidWW wrote:Hmmmmmm....................

The 1908 death register entry of James STANFIELD, Widower of Belinda MATTHEWS, shows his parents as William STANFIELD, Handloom Weaver, and Agnes STANFIELD MS HUGHES. The informant was the Governor of the Combination Poorhouse.

Davie
Hello,

I could check the poorhouse application when I'm at 'The Mitchell' to see what James had to say about himself.

It is quite a late entry though and I don't know if it will be listed yet.

Annette M

Annette

Thanks for that, but will The Mitchell have records relating to the Combination Poorhouse in Hamilton?

On the general question of the period covered in the Poor Relief records held at The Mitchell, it would be useful to check this, and post appropriately. I know that they worked on the basis of a 100 year closure period originally, but have a vague memory that this may have subsequently been relaxed by a decade or so ........

Davie

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:58 am

DavidWW wrote:
nelmit wrote:
DavidWW wrote:Hmmmmmm....................

The 1908 death register entry of James STANFIELD, Widower of Belinda MATTHEWS, shows his parents as William STANFIELD, Handloom Weaver, and Agnes STANFIELD MS HUGHES. The informant was the Governor of the Combination Poorhouse.

Davie
Hello,

I could check the poorhouse application when I'm at 'The Mitchell' to see what James had to say about himself.

It is quite a late entry though and I don't know if it will be listed yet.

Annette M
Annette

Thanks for that, but will The Mitchell have records relating to the Combination Poorhouse in Hamilton?

On the general question of the period covered in the Poor Relief records held at The Mitchell, it would be useful to check this, and post appropriately. I know that they worked on the basis of a 100 year closure period originally, but have a vague memory that this may have subsequently been relaxed by a decade or so ........

Davie

Hello Davie,

I have seen Hamilton Poorhouse Applications at The Mitchell so I'll give it a go. It's just that they are still cataloguing later applications in to the database as far as I know.

I think the closure is 75 years except for sensitive information (i.e. adoptions ).

I will find out for definite though.

Annette M

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:59 am

nelmit wrote:Hello Davie,

I have seen Hamilton Poorhouse Applications at The Mitchell so I'll give it a go. It's just that they are still cataloguing later applications in to the database as far as I know.

I think the closure is 75 years except for sensitive information (i.e. adoptions ).

I will find out for definite though.

Annette M

Thanks !!

Davie

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:21 am

Hi Folks,

Closure, as Annette says, is abt 75 years, and only indexed up to about 1915 for Glasgow so far - but usually great info if you do find an ancestor.

Seems the latest year for Hamilton records is about 1905. But hopefully James' original application was well before his 1908 death.

Jack

maddymoss · Post by **maddymoss** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:51 pm

Thanks for the marvellous response. I’ve been enlightened and confused. I have the death certificates of brothers Thomas (1869) and James Stanfield (1908). Both DC name their parents as William Stanfield and Agnes Hughes. I knew their mother’s MS was Hughes but it never occurred to me to check for James’ marriage under her name. It’s a wee bit of a dog’s dinner but no doubt I’ll get there in the end.
Thanks,
Jim

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:19 pm

Hello Jim,

Sorry could not find James's application at 'The Mitchell'. I was told the records from Hamilton are a bit sporadic.
I did find one for his son Thomas and if you are interested in that I will post the details.

Davie,

The text below was taken from GCC website - http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/
(I think they made a wee mistake with when Govan united with Glasgow).

However, as Jack said they are only indexed till around 1916.

Archives and Special Collections hold more than 1,000,000 applications for poor relief made by residents of Glasgow and the West of Scotland. Areas covered include:

Glasgow, 1851-1948
Barony, 1861-1898 (when it united with Glasgow)
Govan, 1876-1989 (when it united with Glasgow)
former county councils of Bute, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire. Many of these applications date back to the beginning of the new poor law in 1845.

I've posted an image, in the gallery, of an application made in 1879 to show how informative they can be. http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-69

Annette M