A Gordon for me.....

JimmyH · Post by **JimmyH** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:12 pm

After a couple of years with my nose pressed up against the window pane admiring the skill and ingenuity of the members of this discussion group, I’ve decided to take the plunge and lay bare some of my dark family secrets in the hope that someone out there can provide some clues.
I’m looking for anything on my GGGranny Elizabeth McK or Gordon as recorded in the 1881 census At 162 Boden Street, Barony.
Elizabeth McK or Gordon widow aged 53 born in Ireland
Kids – Emily [28] , John [25] & Fanny [23] all born in Airdrie then Robert [ 20] & George G [18] born Pollockshaws, Martha G born Glasgow and finally Grandson John also born in Glasgow. All with the surname McK or Gordon.
Apart from the above, there was an Elizabeth born in 1870 as an illegitimate McKay to the widowed Elizabeth Gordon nee McKay.
The strange thing is, the father, John Gordon fell down a pit and died in 1857 a few months before the birth of Fanny so several of the offspring were born 5 to 14 years after his death. Did they have sperm banks then? I wonder.
John Gordon’s death certificate records that he was married but not to whom.
Fanny Gordon’s (my GGranny) birth certificate names her mother as Bridget McKay and her marriage certificate in 1881 to William Hill (yes, she became Fanny Hill) states that her mother’s name is Elizabeth Gemmell formerly Gordon nee McKay.
Main problem is, I can find no trace of Elizabeth (Bridget) McKay, Gordon or Gemmell, either birth, marriage, remarriage or death.
Still awake at the back? All help appreciated

Jimmy

AnnetteR · Post by **AnnetteR** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:37 pm

Hi Jimmy and welcome aboard

I have hunted high and low for Elizabeth(Bridget) McKay, Gordon or Gemmell(Gemmill) but to no avail. I thought I had struck it lucky when an Elizabeth Gemmell showed up on the 1891 census as Mother in law to a Samuel Higgins and his wife Jane as it had her being born in Ireland and the age was just right but further research down that avenue proved me wrong. Quite a jigsaw puzzle you've got here or maybe it is just me. Just out of interest where did you get the births of the children, the only one the IGI threw up for me was Fanny's but with all the confusion of names I might not have entered the right one. Or did you just take them from the 1881 census? As for your GGGranny Elizabeth, do you have any clues as to what Mr Gemmell's christian name was. Is it possible she may have returned to Ireland and re-married and died there? Just a thought.

Sorry I have nothing more positive

Good Luck with your search

Annette

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:58 pm

Hi Jimmy,

You no doubt have these 3 from the IGI - i haven't had a good look for the older siblings.
--
ROBERT GORDON
Birth: 23 MAR 1861 Eastwood, Renfrew, Scotland
Father: JOHN GORDON
Mother: ELIZABETH MCKAY
--
GEORGE MCKAY
Birth: 20 FEB 1863 Eastwood, Renfrew, Scotland
Parents: [no father]
Mother: ELIZABETH MCKAY
--
ELIZABETH MCKAY
Birth: 20 JAN 1870 Bridgeton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Father: JOHN GORDON
Mother: ELIZABETH MCKAY
--
May i ask how you know that John GORDON who died so tragically in 1857 was Elizabeth's hubby?
Who registered the death - Elizabeth? Does she have a signature that checks out with the 3 later births?

Assuming John did die then, maybe widow Elizabeth misunderstood the question about father when registering an illeg. Robert in 1861.
But was questioned more closely by the Registrar for George's 1863 BC.
And possibly didn't want to say that Elizabeth in 1870 was yet another illeg. child, so just said father had died.
[unfairly though BCs were still marked as illeg. when the father had died before the birth of his child]
Though i'm very probably being unfair on you GG-gran Elizabeth.

What is the Eastwood address where Robert was born in 1861? Likewise with Elizabeth in Bridgeton 1870. Hopefully the family will be at those addresses in the censuses. They might be worth looking at.

But just a lot of guesses - and sorry for all the questions!

Jack

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:24 pm

Hi Jimmy and welcome to TalkingScot.

This is certainly a complicated piece and I've only looked far enough to throw more odd shaped pieces onto the table. There was a birth of John Gordon in New Monkland 12 May 1855 in the IGI with parents of John Gordon and Mary McKay. Since it was the magical year of 1855 I couldn't resist peeking with some leftover credits I had. This was Mary's 6th child with 3 girls living and 2 girls deceased. She and John were married in Airdrie in 1845. (It would be nice to have a peek at the 1851 census for Airdrie!!!) They were living at Flowerhill (or is that Towerhill) Street. Very nice stuff....places of origin in Ireland....John is a miner. So then I peeked at your Fanny's Birth in 1857. Emily McKay was the informant and she was an aunt to Fanny. Mother was Bridget nee McKay and father was John Gordon deceased. Most interesting was the address....there was the Flowerhill/Towerhill address again.

That's as far as I've gone......

Was John married to more than one McKay girl??? and just where does Elizabeth fit into the puzzle??? hmmmmmmm

Jean

CatrionaL · Post by **CatrionaL** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:25 pm

Hullo Jean.

I'm fairly sure that the address is Flowerhill Street. I had Livingston and Stirling mining ancestors living there, at N° 32 and 64, between 1859 and 1893. The street is still in existance today.

Wishing you succesful hunting
Catriona

JimmyH · Post by **JimmyH** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:33 am

My goodness, I certainly didn’t expect so many replies so quickly.
I’ll try to reply in order
Annette –
Firstly, thanks for the reply, I thought about Ms McKay returning to Ireland but I’m not sure that would have been something that happened very often. [I could, of course, be totally wrong]
I found Fanny, Robert and Elizabeth on the IGI the rest from the 1881 census.
I have as yet found nothing on Mr Gemmell so I don’t know his forename.
Jack –
Thanks firstly for your time, I’ll answer your queries as best as I can, I found Robert & Elizabeth on the IGI but not George and, although I have no positive proof that the John Gordon who died in 1857 was the husband/father I was looking for, the circumstantial evidence seems pretty good.
Fanny Gordon born 29/10/1857 of Flowerhill St. Airdrie - Father John Gordon [Ironstone Miner - deceased]
John Gordon [Ironstone Miner] died 21/7/1857 as the result of a fall at the Racecourse Pit. As far as I can make out there were three ironstone pits on the old racecourse, which was about two hundred yards from Flowerhill Street.
The death was registered by John’s brother Alex and unfortunately the signature, like Elizabeth’s on Fanny’s birth registration, was an X
Elizabeth’s address at birth was 8 Scott Street.
In the fullness of time when Scotland’s people release the impending censuses, I’m sure a few details will become much clearer.
Jean –
Thanks to you too for your interest and assistance
John born to John & Mary in 1855 is very interesting, I hadn’t come across that even though the 1881 census gives Elizabeth’s John as being born around that time [probably fixated on Bridget/Elizabeth] That’s going to give me hours of fun now, looking for Mary/ Bridget/ Elizabeth McKay/ McK/ Gordon/ Gemmell. [Perm any one from twelve]
Catriona –
Thanks for your reply and good wishes,
Yes, Flowerhill street is still there. I’m supposed to be going up that way next week, might have a wee dauner that way just for a look. Snow permitting.
Well, thanks to all of you again and all the best on your individual quests.

Jimmy

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:41 am

Hi Jimmy

One more question....was there an age given for John Gordon on his Death Cert??

I'm still puzzling on this one....

Jean

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:20 am

All the post 1855 childrens' births are in the IGI. Jack's posted some, you'll find George in 1863 in Eastwood, Renfrew and Martha in 1868 in Bridgeton, Lanark.

After finding Fanny's birth in IGI click on the batch search. Put in child's surname McKay and mother's surname McKay, a few are listed in this batch, all are illegitimate to four different McKay girls. The 1855 Mary is born to Emly [sic] a 19 year old Seamstress from Londonderry, her address was Davidsons place, Airdrie.

Robert, born to Margaret in 1856 was born at Flowerhill

An Emily McKay married a Thomas Sheekie, miner, in 1856 in Airdrie. She was listed as a Dress Maker, Airdrie. Neither parent is named. (there can be a number of reasons for this, the most usual was that a witness provided the details or the registrar couldn't make out the minister or priest's writing)

An 1881 search for Sheek* gives a few in Monklands:

Dwelling: 2 Flowerhill St
Census Place: New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203696 GRO Ref Volume 651-1 EnumDist 18 Page 14
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Roseann SHEEKY W 65 F Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Washerwoman
Elizabeth SHEEKY M 22 F Airdrie, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: ((Cotton)) Mill Worker

And a Thomas (probably related) at the Poorhouse:

Thomas SHEEKY M 64 M Ireland
Rel: Inmate
Occ: Formerly Coal Miner

Also at the poorhouse:

Emily SHEEKY 8 F Airdrie, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Inmate
Occ: Scholar

Joseph SHEEKY 11 M Airdrie, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Inmate
Occ: Scholar

Emily Thomson Sheeky/Montgomerie nee McKay died in 1884 married first to Thomas Sheeky and 2nd to William Montgomary a carpet designer. Her parents are listed as George McKay a soldier in the Royal Artillery and Bridget Conner. These names are consistent with Elizabeth/Bridget's children and assumed names.

The site's down just now but I'll look for more later.

JimmyH · Post by **JimmyH** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:31 am

Morning Jean
John's age is given as 31 on the certificate. As the information was given by a sibling it's likely to be more accurate than information given by any one else. [Apart from his Mum of course]
Thanks again
Jimmy

JimmyH · Post by **JimmyH** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:47 am

Hello Andy
Yet again I'm in awe of the ingenuity of the forum members.
That's brilliant, it may take may a wee while to go through all that information but hey, it'll keep me off the streets.
Thanks a million
Jimmy