Help with death certificate.....

[AngelaS]

Hi

I have been seraching for ages ( and spent a fortune!) looking for a death certificate for my great-great grandfather but have had no luck.

His name was James Pollock. He appears on the 1861 census in New Kilpatrick aged 36 working as a miner. From his children's marriage certificate I have worked out that he died between 1879 and 1890. He was married to Bridget Eccles, sometimes known as Elizabeth Eccles.

I would be grateful if anyone could offer any suggestions as to what other options I could try to find the certificate.

Thanks

[paddyscar]

Hi Angela:

You don't say where you have looked, but have you tried http://www.ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk?

I did a quick search on ScotlandsPeople and didn't find anything specific to New Kilpatrick, but he may have moved or died away from home. There were 62 males named James Pollock who died between 1879 - 1890.

If you narrow it down by adding your James' age between 52 - 67, there are only 11 who died in that time period.

If you enter a birth year of 1825 give or take 2 years, it is narrowed down to 3 possibilities.

I'm not able to go any further than that as my access time on ScotlandsPeople has expired, but someone may be able to persue it for you, or you could try the above searches on ScotlandsPeople.

Frances

[JustJean]

Hello Angela

This one is stumping me!! I'm almost thinking that maybe James left his family!! You didn't mention any census findings after 1861 so I wonder if you've managed to track down his wife and kids? You see....I'm pretty sure your Elizabeth aka Bridget is an aka Mary in 1871 in Partick There is a Mary POLLOCK listed as a widow with a Robert, Susan, Margaret, and Helen. The only births I can find on the IGI or through SP are:


ROBERT POLLOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 30 NOV 1856 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

SUSANNA POLLOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 07 DEC 1858 New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton, Scotland

HELEN POLLOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 NOV 1860 New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton, Scotland

ELIZABETH POLLOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 03 NOV 1865 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

which is only confusing me further as the wee Helen with them aged 5 mos in 1861 surely can't be the same wee Helen with them in 1871 aged 2. But there is no other birth for another Helen and no death of a Helen either. Unless I've lost my touch (Which makes me really wonder if James was around when the last wee Helen was born)

To continue this tale you'll find Elizabeth back to being an ECCLES in 1881 with the aforementioned Elizabeth and Helen...

Dwelling: 83 George Street
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203689 GRO Ref Volume 646-2 EnumDist 17 Page 27
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Elizabeth ECCLES M 54 F Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Washerwoman
Elizabeth POLLOCK U 16 F Partick, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Paper Staining Mill Girl
Ellen POLLOCK 12 F Partick, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar


and even though she is shown as Married....well....there wasn't a husband in her last census

Are there any more clues you can throw on the fire? What about the MC of the kids you referred to....whose were they and what were the dates?? There certainly is no James POLLOCK death that fits your bill that I've come across yet!!

Best wishes
Jean

[Andy]

Also with mother Bridget Akles:

1. GEORGE POLLOCK - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 27 JAN 1863 Govan, Lanark, Scotland

This means that the first Helen died between 1860 and 1871 because Helen in 1871 is only two years old.

There is no sign of Helen age 2 in 1871 the birth entries and no sign of a marriage or death of Bridget/Elizabeth/Mary's first child? Barney Kennedy.

A puzzlement!

Also can't find a death for son, George born 1863.

[AngelaS]

Hi

Thanks for all your help. It is definitely a mystery. The info you have all provided is great but adds more mystery to the situation. The second Helen is possibly my great grand mother, known as Ellen, but I can't find any record of her birth. I can't find any trace of the first Helen after 1861 or any trace of George after his birth in 1863. James and Bridget/Elizabeth were married in JUne 1855 according to one of their children's birth certificates but I can't find any record of teh marriage either

I will keep trying and will let you know if I find anything.

Thanks again.

Angela

[AngelaS]

Sorry, I left this out of the previous post. In 1861 the Pollocks had a stepson, Barney Kennedy living with them. He married in the 1870's - I can't remember the exact date as I have left my notebook in work!- He was known as Bernard Pollock by this time although his original father is listed on the marriage certificate. He died shortly afterwards.

Angela

[JustJean]

Hi Angela

Sorry to leave this in such a tangle! I wouldn't spend any more credits on the situation as all the possibles have been eliminated. Perhaps James left the country. Can't account for the missing children though! I too searched for the 1855 MC and came up empty...which made me wonder if the date was wrong....or perhaps they never married at all! I have a few porkie tellers in my family so am well acquainted with the techniques

Best wishes
Jean

ps...I noticed Susan married a DREW and I think is found in 1881 with a baby that is listed as born Partick, Lancashire, England

[Jack]

Hi folks,
This could be the Helen POLLOCK who was 2yrs in the 1871 census (as Ellen POLLOCK 12 in 1881).
Mind that Govan Parish included Partick back then.
--
HELEN ECKLES - Birth: 27 FEB 1869 Govan, Lanark, Scotland
No Father.
Mother: BRIDGET ECKLES
--
You were right Jean - it doesn't look like James was around!
Jack

[JustJean]

Jack you've done it! =D> I only had the premonition... Of course we all know that "no father" just isn't possible It just might have been James but meaning he wasn't around for the birth. It is very odd that Susan would list him as her father and not name him as deceased when she married. Perhaps they just didn't know what had become of him. If he died in Scotland it doesn't seem to be under James Pollock.
Angela have you tried tracking down any siblings or other family members of James?

Best wishes
Jean

[Russell]

Hi Angela
I noticed that you were consistent in your spelling of the name Pollock.
I used to live in Pollok in Glasgow many moons ago and noticed quite a range of variations of the spelling even today. Go back a hundred years and there were routinely about 7 versions.

No-one else mentioned it which is surprising for this bunch!!!
Variations on the name Pollock

Pollok
Pollak
Polloc
Polok
Polock
Poloc
Polac
You've probably gone through them already but if it makes other folk think of their road blocks no harm done

Russell