Success and St Quivox quandary

[mmuir]

Well, A good 6 pounds spent but it has raised a bunch of questions.

After years thinking that Jane Muir died before 1855, I found her having another child in 1857. This time, an Agnes Muir (illegitimate as usual) (24 Mar 1857) at Sandyford St Quivox.

This sent me off on a quest to find her death, and there it was in St Quivox, This time as Jean Muir, 20 Oct 1863, age 32 of Consumption (with the correct parents, John Muir and Agnes Muir MS Murray) At this time location of death is Ladykirk Bridge, St Quivox. As she is listed as a pauper, so I doubt that there is a grave stone.

I then did a search in the 1861 Census for her (she was a Dairymaid in 1857) but no luck. Her mom is at Mainshew Farm in St Quivox with her 2 children. (Interestingly listed as William McKie and Agnes Brown, now I wonder what the father's last name was? William's reputed father was Maxwell McKie. Interesting enough the house next door is a Thomas McKie but I don't know if there is a relationship.

But no sign of Jane. The only clues I have are that her mom is in St Quivox, her brother Robert who reported her death was in Dundonald.

Now where did she go? And where did little Agnes Muir go? We never had a story that he had a sister but there is no doubt that he would have known about her (living together would do that, he was age 7 in 1861)
And searching for Muir is just so annoying, there is just too many of them to just do a blanket search.

Bye for now
Mary

[DavidWW]

Mary

My first step would to be to search in the 1861 census, but restricting the search to the county of Ayr, for a J* M??r* , age range 28 to 32, and male only to avoid picking up John etc.

M??r* will pick all variants with two letters between the "M" and the "r", and also include a trailing letter, - e.g. it occurs to me that MOORE is not an impossible variant.

Depending on how many results that generates then I'd restrict the search to between 2 to 5 parishes, - this can be done in the BMD and census indexes.

If that doesn't work, .................................

David

[deano]

Hello Mary,

You say that you have Jean's, death certificate for 1863, what were her parent's names, and what age was her brother Robert.

I have the index for the 1851, and 1861, census's for Ayrshire, I may be able to find her on these census's.

Regards,
Jonn.

[mmuir]

Hi,

Jane's parents are John Muir and Agnes Muir MS Murray. From piecing together census etc. it appears that they had
In the 1841/51 Census the family is as follows:

1841 Census of Scotland
Film #0101816 Piece: SCT1841/585 Place: Dailly-Ayrshire Enumeration District: 1 Civil Parish: Dailly Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island:
Folio: 0 Page: 5 Address: Balcamie

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MUIR John M 50 Ag Lab Ireland
MUIR Agnes F 40 Ayrshire
MUIR Mary F 20 Ayrshire
MUIR William M 11 Ayrshire
MUIR Jane F 9 Ayrshire
MUIR Robert M 6 Ayrshire
MUIR Agnes F 2 Ayrshire
HAMILTON Agnes F 10 Ayrshire

1851 Census of Scotland
County of Ayr, District of Carrick, Parish of Dailly, Enumeration District 1
Low Park
John Muir, Head, Mar, 68, Pauper (Ag. Labourer), Ireland
Agnes Muir, Wife, Mar, 52, , Ayrshire. Kirkoswald
Robert do, Son, U, 15, Agricultural Labourer, Ayrshire. Dailly
Agnes do, Daur, , 12, Scholar, Ayrshire. Dailly
Helen do, Niece, , 2, , Ayrshire. Girvan

in 1851 Jane is working at Hich Clachie in Girvan as a house servant, Also working for the Dunlop family was Maxwell McKie the reputed father of her son, William Muir/McKie

Her brother Robert was born between 1836 and 1837 in Dailly based on Census/Marriage certificate. He married Margaret Rowan on 28 May 1861 at Sandiford in St Quivox.

John Muir died in Dailly on 2 Jul 1851.

Thanks in advance
Mary

[deano]

Hello Mary,

I have searched the 1861, census index, for your Jane Muir, using Jane, Jean, and Janet, surnames Muir, Mair, Moore, and Moir, with a age band 26 years, to 36 years.

There were quite a few but most of them were in families, married etc. there were only two who may be possibles, there first names however were Janet, which is interchangeable with Jane, or Jean.

This is them,

Janet Muir, aged 29 years, Ayr, born in Ayr.
Janet Muir, aged 28 years, Kilmarnock, born in Craigie.

In your previous post you said her brother Robert, was in Dundonald, in the 1861, census, are you sure, was it maybe Monkton.

Please also remember that there is no such thing as a census which is 100% complete, and that for many reasons people were missed out of these counts.

Sorry I could not have been more helpful.

Regards,
Jonn.

[mmuir]

Thanks for looking. I find Jane to be quite an elusive girl. I would never have found her in 1851 except my mom was just browsing the Girvan census (since someone brought the film into the FHC) and there she was.

Both Jane and her brother Robert are supposed to be born in Dailly. In the 1851 and 1881 census Robert is listed as born in Dailly. Roberts wife was born in Dalmellington.
In 1861 Robert married in St Quivox, in 1862, the first child was born in Kilmaurs, the second in 1863 was born in Dundonald so he moved around quite a bit.

When the local FHC reopens in Aug, I am planning on ordering St Quivox's census for 1861. It seems to me she should be in St Quivox hiding as a Dairymaid or already sick with Consumption.

I wonder where they would send people with Consumption?

Thanks for the look up
Mary

[Russell]

Hi Mary

You asked 'I wonder where they would send people with Consumption? '

The answer would have to be - they didn't send them anywhere back then, particularly if they were ordinary working people.
Even if sanitoria had been available for them to go to they would have been totally unable to pay for the the months and months required for the body to heal and recover.
It was only at the very end of the 1800's that the first dedicated TB sanitoria were opened. you had to pay. No National Health Service in those days.
One such sanitorium was opened in the Orphan Homes of Scotland ( Quarriers to you & me) Although it was principally for the children they also took in adults and looked after the children for them. Recovery could take 12 - 18 months since there were no effective drugs and all they could offer was fresh air and a healthy diet.

Imagine sleeping on an open verandah through a Scottish winter? Brrrrh!

Russell

[mmuir]

I don't think mine would be able to pay. She was listed as Pauper when she died. I presume she wasn't with mom as her mom had her 2 children plus another child.
The only knowledge I have of TB is in Canada, my grandfather had it in the 1940's and was in a hospital but the local natives made a special drink that ended up curing him. Had devil club's root and a bunch of other stuff.

It seems that Consumption/TB/Phthisis Pulmonalis ended up killing quite a few of the family (and families they married into) Jane's granddaughter died of it in 1916 as well as William's brother in law and entire family (5 in total) Not really surprising as it is quite contagious.

Mary

[LesleyB]

Hi Mary

It seems that Consumption/TB/Phthisis Pulmonalis ended up killing quite a few of the family (and families they married into) Jane's granddaughter died of it in 1916 as well as William's brother in law and entire family (5 in total) Not really surprising as it is quite contagious.

I gather it was a big killer across the board. I have lots of deaths due to phthisis in my tree, and I'm sure everyone else here does too. It was a major cause of death I think in those days.

Best wishes
Lesley

[joette]

Yes & it's making a big comeback these days as people are less aware/think it is an eradicated disease.
I worked on a Chest Ward of what had been the old Fever Hospital.
We had many cases of TB.Most took their medication for the set time & were "cured".
Some refused the medication & were "sectioned" under the Public Health Act & forced to take their medication.I was incensed at this infringement of people's Civil Liberties until the older Nurses who had worked when TB was rife explained the consequences for the public if not properly controlled.I was still not happy but could see the reasoning behind it all.